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     Ivan |
The rise of 'Nazi' radicalism is upon us again, this video brought to my attention, via email. Watch it with understanding. This is happening inside our own borders, USA, Europe, Canada, Australia, India, NZ... the whole world, the "us against them" fearmongering theme. "Obsession: Radical Isl*m's War Against the West" is 1 hr 17 minutes. If you find it worthy, pass it on. Here is the 12 minute version of Obsession: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6331994107023396223&hl=en Read the interview about this video Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,206098,00.html Is this "failing human reason?" I find it frightening and sobering, that intelligent people can become evil like this, again, in the 21st century. God help us. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The rise of 'Nazi' radicalism is upon us again, this video brought to my attention, via email. Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 12:41 pm: Ivan The following is the introduction to the movie the link of which is given by Ivan. === If Loose Change blew your mind, just watch this. This movie explores what all Radical Islamic Extremists, who only make up 10% - 15% of the Muslim population, are really trying to do, and how. You have to see this movie to get a real perspective of the problems we have in the world. === The movie is getting downloaded. I hope to see the whole movie. I would like to comment on one aspect of the ‘introduction to the movie.’ If the RIEs are about 100 to 150 millions, the situation is already beyond hope. I believe the RIEs might be in the thousands and not in the millions. Any who could clarify with statistics? Some mathematics? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
I just now finished watching the video. This was the thought during the last few minutes of the video: Hitler did not have to overcome the true teachings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Those who claim that Muslims are required to conquer the world have to go against the message given by Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in his death bed: the implication of that message is discussed in my blog, http://deentech.spaces.msn.com/PersonalSpace.aspx See article 16 – Verses 9:29 and 2:256 and the Arabian Peninsula – in which it is stated as follows: === Another reason is to restrain the future Muslims so that they do not extend the Muslim-only territory beyond the Arabian Peninsula, because at the time of his death Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not rule the whole of the Arabian Peninsula. Thus, the Muslims cannot use the argument that once a region has become a Muslim land it shall remain so forever. 'Muslim only land' was defined to be the Arabian Peninsula only by Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. This definition could not be altered by any but another Prophet, peace be upon him, to appear in future. The Muslims believe Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, would descend from Heaven and extend the 'Muslim-only land' outside the Arabian Peninsula. Until then no Muslim-only land outside the Arabian Peninsula. === The above quote the words 'Muslim only land' substitute another phrase used in the blog. Challenge those who desire to fight and establish 'Muslim only land' outside the Arabian Peninsula. Let their objections be reported here or communicated to me using the email link given in the home page of the web site http://www.deentech.com/ God Almighty willing, the false propoganda that the whole earth is to become 'Muslim only land' would be defeated. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
I had thought that we had agreed to make this line of discussion free of religion and use it to debate human conciouness. Referring to religion, in my opinion, as part of the foreces that shape the human conciousness is perfectly acceptable. This includes using examples of efforts by religious extremists like the RIE to shape the conciouness of a people to a particular goal or world view as is illustrated by the video mentioned in this thread. However, Mohideen Ibramsha, seems to have a problem grasping this nuance and keeps reverting back to quoting the teachings of the prophet and draging a narrow view of human conciousness back into the discussion. It is clear that there is currently a clash of world views occuring between those individuals raised in a traditional Muslim society and those raised outside that society. I had thought we would explore the reason behind this factor, which is shaping the couciousness of millions of Muslims throughout the Muslim world. While I am a Christian, I feel that I must point out in fairness that a similiar effect is at work, although to a far lessor degree, in shaping the fundamentalist Christian World view in the United States. The difference between the two world views emerging would, in my opinion, be worth comparing here. As to Mohideen Ibramsha's statement, "God Almighty willing, the false propoganda that the whole earth is to become 'Muslim only land' would be defeated". I find it very interesting because it seems to indicate an understanding at some level of conciousness that if Muslims attempt to force their world view on the rest of the world that they would be smashed and defeated by the combined forces of the rest of the civilized world. As a Celtic Christian my view of Christianity is both similiar to that of modern Christianity and much different. It is shaped by some teachings that lay are the core of Celtic Christianity and are as taken from the following website: http://www.ecreekside.com/ArticleArchives/FeatureArticles/20010315_CelticChristi anity.htm "Just as the Celtic Christians may be honored for "saving civilization", so to could they be honored for "saving Christianity". There are several important lessons the modern church might learn from the Celts: A recognition that all areas of life were sacred (ie. no false dichotomy between the “sacred” and “secular”) A love of nature, art, beauty, story, music and learning. A concern for the oppressed. An strong emphasis on spiritual disciplines and the rejection of sin. A compassionate and empathetic evangelism (bringing Christ to people where they’re at – instead of imposing on them a presumed, and often mistaken, notion of “Christian culture”) Just some thoughts as to forces that shape conciouness and recognition of those that have shaped mine and colored my worldview. These views are reflective of my studies of the teachings of Celtic Christianity from a variety of sources. Ed Chesky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
if Muslims attempt to force their world view on the rest of the world that they would be smashed and defeated by the combined forces of the rest of the civilized world. Ed Chesky Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:14 pm: Anonymous Muslims do not attempt to force their world view on others. Radical Muslims might dream so. I question even the 10% to 15% Muslims being radical. Even granting that, the rest 85% to 90% of Muslims are for peaceful coexistence. The video ends with a request to educate the Muslim children with a love for life. To me it seems to be an indirect attempt to ‘reform.’ I just pointed out that the real religion does not support conquest. Thus there is no need for reform. It is my humble suggestion that we move away from reforming a religion but move towards removing the misconceptions. Removing misconceptions has a chance of success. I do not like war and hope that dialogue – correct dialogue – could let all of us live in peace. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
When I watched this video, "Obsession", I was moved by what people had done to their religion, to turn it into an instrument of terror and war. In fact, I felt sad for the Muslim world, especially the part of seeing their little children brainwashed into becoming suicide 'soldiers' in their future. What kind of soldiery kills its soldier with the first shot, when he or she pulls the trigger on their waste belt bomb? What a losing strategy of war, and inhuman horror. This is so unconscious of human evolution, of being human, of freedom, or mind, or of all the beautiful things in life. What a tragedy. It truly made me feel sorry for the Muslims, so violent while so pathetic, and yet so monstrous. Ed, in yours: The point I saw in this vide was not so much Muslim consciousness, or rather a lack of consciousness, as much as radicalism, especially Nazi styled radicalism. The forces we face in these extremist radicals are so monstrously coercive, that it not comparable to us on any level as a measure of civilization. Think how beautiful is the world your dream, and how low and horrible is the world these extremists dream. They, these radicalized neo-quasi-religious Nazis are so full of hate, of ill will towards the rest of humanity in their Jihadic conquest aspirations, that they have lost all sense of normal humanity. Where is the beauty in their world? Never mind the religion; which unfortunately lends itself rather well to such horrors through Mohammed's teachings as evidenced by his deeds; but think of each human being as an individual. First as a child, and then a young dreamy and hopeful adolescent, and then a functioning and productive adult. This is missing in that Nazi radicalism world. Children are abused so by the age of 3 they already hate! By the time they should be dreaming of the whole life ahead of them, they are already enlisting to blow themselves up to kill. And by the time they are adults, their hatred is all consuming, now passed down to their children. What a horrible diabolical vicious cycle. This is the legacy of Hitler grafted onto the Muslim world, and it is an absolute tragedy. What a waste of human life, and humanity. Why? Because the Jews wanted to move back to where they came from? Isn't that normal? Or is this merely an excuse, and the forces of evil, that evil that drives itself like a malevolent splinter into the human heart, was just looking for an outlet. Israel was the perfect scapegoat for this evil's expression, as well as American and western styled freedoms. Do you think for one moment that if Israel were to perish from the face of the Earth (which I know it will not), that this Jihad Nazism would stop? I seriously doubt it. The evil radicalism is in their hearts, like a poison that traveled through the veins and lodged itself there. Most human beings can in time overcome poison. (Ed, you are living proof.) But these Muslims did not, could not, and will not. So where does it leave us? I must say, Mohideen, for you, and your peers, to overcome this evil that has lodged itself into your world religion, it will take a miracle. I know you are a good man, of good will and peace, because I can see it in your writings. But if I were a Muslim, knowing everything that I know here, I would break down and cry for what had been done to my religion, with bitter tears. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Because the Jews wanted to move back to where they came from? Isn't that normal? Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 06:19 pm: Ivan When Makkah was conquered, the Muslims who had left Makkah to Medina desired to reclaim their old residences and settle in Makkah. They were denied that request and were told to leave Makkah and return to Medina. For a Muslim leaving one’s properties to migrate elsewhere implies not to have any claim on that property, ever! This is the basic reason for the Palestinians opposing Israel. When the Jews left the Holy Land they lost the right to come back there. Yes, by a natural process of assimilation, Jews could have bought the properties in Palestine and migrated there and lived along with the existing population. When the WW II victors decided that the nation of Israel exclusively for Jews would be carved out of the Palestine land it went against the Muslim concept of fairness. Even now, if the state of Israel would agree to share the land with the displaced Palestinians, the other Muslims would be happy to enforce the peace between Palestinians and the Jews. Notwithstanding all that, in an earlier thread I had suggested that the Suez Canal be converted to Suez Lake so that the Holy Land is no more a part of the Arabian Peninsula. May be Mohideen Ibramsha is a too small fry and thus his suggestion need not even be looked at? Convert the Suez Canal to Suez Lake so that there is no conflict between Israel and the Arabs. No Muslim would agree to have a non-Muslim living in the Arabian Peninsula and practicing another religion. It is the Muslim faith. Do not expect a Muslim to renounce his faith for the sake of peace. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
So by this 'logic' Mohideen, there are now no Muslims, nor can ever be any Muslims, in Makkah? Perhaps some clarification is here in order? You are talking about Mecca, no? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ali Sina writes a very insightful article, I think it a must read: http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=306 Blind Hypocrisy: Why Muslims Should Pray for Israel? Posted by: Ali Sina on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 (in above link) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
A very good read Ivan, I concur with it for the most part. It clearly defines part of the Muslim mindset I was talking about and the Muslim need to pove that they are strong even if it means walking down the path of self destruction. Because the spread of Muslim fundamentalism has reached the point where it now encompasses much of the Arab world in the Middle East we are faced with a difficult choices and the approaches we must take to deal with this problem. The approaches we are currently taking to dealing with this problem can be largely defined, in my opinion, as outlined below. The European's, with reduced militaries and power projection capability, have taken the approach of long term assimilation, legal actions and diplomacy as the way to counter this spread of fundamentalism. I have attached a link to an article that talks about France's effort to prosecute peopel who practice female genital circumcism in France. While taking a class in Anthopology this case was cited as clash between Western and Muslim worldviews being fought out in the court system of Europe. Then came Madrid, 7/11 and 9/11. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/europe/270603.stm This case is but one example of the European approach to assimilation and reforming Muslims in their countries and is perhaps a contributing factor to the Muslim view that their culture and practices are under attack. The middle ground of containment, supporting the establishment of covert and overt networks in Muslim countries that support change, coupled to the use of a tailored military responses and sanctions that was making some progress has largely been abandoned by the current administration as being too slow. I have also attached a link that discusses the NEOCON view of the Middle East under the current administration as a point of discussion. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040628/attapatu While I agree that one of the greatest threats to stability and order in the West is the rise of RIEs I feel that the brute force approach taken by the NEOCONs to dealing with the problem has made the situation worse. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040628/attapatu Overall, I would have to say that at this juncture we need to take deep look at our policies in the region and move to a more tailored and balanced approach towards dealing with the rise of RIE's that includes reforming established states, reducing corruption in those states, promoting human rights to include the rights of women and demonstrating to the Muslim World the benefits of changing in order to better relations with the rest of the world in terms of a corrot and stick approach. Just some thoughts Ed Chesly | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ed, guess who was in town today, just dropped in for a chat.  "Blair: Western values must triumph over radical Is**m" http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/01/mideast.blair/index.html I must admit I like his style, always smart. I wish he were American. Thanks for the links, Ed, will read up. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
So by this 'logic' Mohideen, there are now no Muslims, nor can ever be any Muslims, in Makkah? Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 05:02 pm: Ivan I prefer to use Makkah instead of Mecca. Both terms refer to the same place. On the bloodless conquest Makkah, most of the inhabitants of Makkah reverted to the faith of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. The principle ‘once abandoned never claimed’ applies to those who abandoned their properties. Those Muslims who migrated to Medina from Makkah before the conquest of Makkah did not come back to settle in Makkah. Their descendants might have acquired properties in Makkah not by claiming their ancestral properties but by normal purchases or grants. The difference in perception on this principle – once abandoned never claimed – was at the root of the bloodshed in India during the partition. The Muslims in Pakistan refused to pay any compensation to the departing Hindus claiming that the properties vacated by the Hindus would be given to the Muslims coming from India. In contrast, the Hindus in India purchased the properties of the departing Muslims – possibly at throwaway prices – and the Hindus who came from Pakistan became refugees. Thus the Muslims who left India carried wealth with them, while the Hindus who entered India entered with no wealth. This caused enormous bloodshed as the departing Muslims were attacked because they carried their wealth with them. As regards the issue of the Holy Land, my position follows: 1. Those that voluntarily left the Holy Land have no claim on it. 2. Those that were forced to flee the Holy Land to save their lives do have a claim on it. 3. As regards the exodus of the Jews from the Holy Land I do not know whether they moved on their own accord as per their scriptures or they fled to save their lives. 4. I believe the Muslims living in that part of Palestine given away to Israel were driven out. Thus the driven out have the right of return. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
"Blair: Western values must triumph over radical Is**m" Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 09:35 pm: Ivan 1835386%2C00.html,http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,1835386 ,00.html === Mr Blair said the conflict in the Middle East and beyond was "in part a struggle between what I call reactionary Is**m and moderate mainstream Is**m, but its implications go far wider. We are fighting a war - but not just against terrorism, but about how the world should govern itself in the early 21st century, about global values." === Radical Is**m is justified by the creation of Pakistan by UK in 1946 justifying the existence of Dar-Al-Is**m outside the Arabian Peninsula. We – all those excluding the radicals first - need to agree that Dar-Al-Is**m is the Arabian Peninsula alone and accept that. Once the radicals are singled out, they might reconcile to the fact that Dar-Al-Is**m is a small restricted piece of land and thus the attempt at ‘global conquest’ would evaporate. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
NEO-JIHAD OF THE MODERN WORLD COMBATING TERRORISM CENTER at West Point http://www.ctc.usma.edu/naji.asp I think this is the holy grail, the true 'catechism' of Arab Jihad, worth reading. Ed, have your read in depth the "Management of Savagery" by Abu Bakr Naji? (see download file in the above link) I think this should be mandatory reading for all State Department personnel, military brass, academia involved with the Middle East, news media personnel, and business school management faculty (for an example of what not to do, or go to jail), and all modern thinkers, which gives us an incredible insight into the Arab Jihadi mindset. It should also be compulsory reading for all international relations students, and senators both in the US and the EU, including MP's of Canada, Australian, New Zealand, and all of Europe. This is good! Here are some other references to Abu Bakr's essay on how to manage Jjihad: Armageddon Cocktail Hour https://armageddoncocktailhour.wordpress.com/2006/07/10/al-qaeda-has-a-master-st rategist/ Abu Bakr Naji's Management of Savagery" http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/2006/07/abu-bakr-najis-management-of-savage ry_18.html Jihadi Thinker Emphasizes the Media's Importance http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5545157 Al-Qa'ida book on managing savagery http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005268.php Terror's playbook, NY Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/439083p-369945c.html From the Gypsy Scholar, if I may quote: The plan: conduct "vexation and exhaustion" operations such as bombing tourist sites and oil facilities. This will create a security vacuum as regime forces concentrate at those places, which will then be exploited by terrorist cadres moving into unprotected regions or cities to take over day-to-day administrative duties .... Once established, these cadres will network with each other and "move towards a caliphate [i.e., an Isl**ic empire]." Followed by: Bingo! This is right on cue, happening right now. I downloaded William McCant's translation of the original Arabic, very hard to read, written in that typical meandering confusing style of Jihad literature, except there is some attempt to make it look scholarly and non-religious, and plowed through as much as I could at one sitting. It was work. There is a certain 'Machievellian' quality to this, though he would have written it more succinctly, that emphasizes 'rules of engagement' to bring down western civilization. It is about as far from our values as any writing can get, where coercion, fear, deceit, chaos, are all valued over what we believe in, truth, agreement, civil order, and human freedom. How far apart can we get here? Abu Bakr's thought process is demonic, diabolical, all in the name of his religion and Sharia, to sow discord, failure, pain and death, barbarism, i.e., savagery. But then, it is called "Management of Savagery", and that savagery is self induced, an opportunistic break down of law and order to then come as 'saviours' to impose their repressive Sharia. Infantile strategy, but they are infantile minds, so it seems to work for them. Here are some salient quotes from the original: http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf Why do we call it “management of savagery” or “management of savage chaos” and not “management of chaos”? That is because it is not the management of a commercial company, or of an institution suffering from chaos, or of a group of neighbors in a district or residential region, or even of a peaceful society suffering from chaos. Rather, it is more nebulous than chaos, in view of its corresponding historical precedents and the modern world and in light of wealth, greed, various forces, and human nature, and its form which we will discuss in this study. Before its submission to the administration, the region of savagery will be in a situation resembling the situation of Afghanistan before the control of the Taliban, a region submitting to the law of the jungle in its primitive form, whose good people and even the wise among the evildoers yearn for someone to manage this savagery. They even accept any organization, regardless of whether it is made up of good or evil people. However, if the evil people manage this savagery, it is possible that this region will become even more barbarous! --Sect. 1:11 Or perhaps more telling of Abu Bakr's philosophy: Likewise, this principle has other areas (of application) under different circumstances and exigencies, as is the case with most of the principles. For example, there is a target that is easy to strike, like a building belonging to the enemy in which meetings are held and so forth, and it is destroyed with a small booby trap, even though [30] we have a good cache of explosives which had not been used during our activities. In this case, it is possible to use a quantity of explosives which not only destroys the building or even levels it to the earth; it makes the earth completely swallow it up. By doing so, the amount of the enemy’s fear is multiplied and good media goals are achieved, the most prominent of which is the enemy's inability to conceal its losses. Similar operations have to be repeated over and over and a number of good results will be achieved as a consequence. --Sect. 4:30 Also this, a clear call for WW III: Here is an important point: It is best if those that undertake operations of “paying the price” are other groups in other regions against which no hostility has been directed. There are a number of benefits in this, which we will expand on in the section concerning “power” [shawka]. Among the most important benefits is making the enemy feel that he is surrounded and that his affairs are exposed. If the enemy undertakes a hostile action against a region in the Arabian Peninsula or in Iraq, then the response will occur in Morocco or Nigeria or Indonesia. This will cause embarrassment for the enemy, especially if the region in which the operation of “paying the price” occurred submits to the control of the regimes of unbelief or the regimes of apostasy. Thus, (the enemy) will not find a good arena in which to respond. Further, that operation will work to raise the morale of those who had received (the initial) hostility and communicate a practical message to Muslims in every place that we are one Umma and that assistance is not limited by borders. --Sect. 4:33 So attack them somewhere else? Maybe in one of the 55 Muslim nations, if you can't fight them on their home soil? What a sinister strategy! This is truly evil, so against human 'agreement' on which our civilization is founded, and so much for 'coercion', which is what their world is all about. But there is an 'Achilles' heel here, amongst the many (which I will not point out, leaving instead for our tacticians in this war), which is already self evident: Jihadists are at war with not only 'infidels' but also 'apostates' of their own faith, meaning anyone who disagrees with this extremely coercive philosophy, that is just about everybody. So they fight everyone, and in this are spread out everywhere (one of their tenets is to spread out the enemy) so that their effectiveness is weakened. If at war with everyone, they should be conquered on multiple fronts simultaneously, or in their words "vexed and exhausted" to where they collapse from within. Strange, but this is just what they expect to happen to the West, that we collapse from within. In fact, they have no idea what our civilization of democratic freedoms is all about, our rule of law, our respect for the rights of the individual, our love of life. The Jihadis by their own admission "love death", so let them have it. What they don't seem to understand is that when we are attacked, we don't collapse from within; instead, we pull together and fight them. So it is WW III, no doubt about it. We must fight them! Somehow, this author feels that the Arab world is being cheated of their rightful place, and successes. He writes: "If not for robbery, our people would be the richest." Well? How about all that oil money that flows into the Arab world? Why do they remain so poor? Or are the "rich" their own masters who keep the wealth for themselves, without investing it into development of the impoverished Arab masses? There's a thought. But then the evil aspects of their coercive religion trips them up: How do you invest in a self-destructive people who seem unable to build anything of value in their lives? They are more suited to "caravan raiding" than civilized society. So give them wealth, and what happens? The top skims it off, raids it, so the bottom gets nothing. No, Naji is wrong. His Machievellian scheme will not work, even if the Umma was world wide, their poverty would only intensify, since now they have nothing left to raid but themselves. Of course, it will never come to that, because we will conquer this primitive ignorant Jihad. They may succeed in Somalia, or Darfur, Sudan, or Nigeria, but not here. So now, as Blair said, we have to re-evaluate and promote our values of human dignity, of love of life, of the rights of the individual, of the force of freedom, of equitable and fair exchange, and our freedom of thought, those things that made us great. Or, in his words: "It's about modernization within Isl*m and out of it. It's about whether our value system can be shown to be sufficiently robust, true, principled and appealing that it beats theirs." The Arab world never had a Magna Carta, nor a Constitution drawn up by some of the greatest minds of our time, the Jeffersons and Adams and Franklins, nor a Bill of Rights, nor "egality, fraternite, liberte", or anything like it; so their social development was never enhanced by an age of Enlightenment, and they remained backwards in some pre-medieval time, of raiding caravans. This neo-jihad of theirs is just that, primitive and unable to cope with modern times. It is doomed to fail. Though, like any mega-criminal gang, it will have to be dealt with, even if difficult at times. We will "vex and exhaust" them better than they can do to us. Our victory is when this evil is conquered, and the whole free world once again enjoys peace. One more thing. We are not "supporting Israel". We are fighting for our rights as free men and women, of which Israel is but one important front. The Arabs better learn this, and from this, or else perish from the face of the Earth. We are the future, as free human beings, not them. Their choice. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Attack, and counter-Attack. Excellent reminder article of what had been, and can be again if not vigilant, by Andrew G. Bostom: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16493 "Many thousands of non-Muslim captives were deported to slavery in Andalusia, where the caliph kept a militia of tens of thousand of Christian slaves, brought from all parts of Christian Europe (the Saqaliba), and a harem filled with captured Christian women. Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Is**mization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews." Maimonides was running: "The Muslim Berber Almohads in Spain and North Africa (1130-1232) wreaked enormous destruction on both the Jewish and Christian populations. This devastation- massacre, captivity, and forced conversion- was described by the Jewish chronicler Abraham Ibn Daud, and the poet Abraham Ibn Ezra. Suspicious of the sincerity of the Jewish converts..., Muslim “inquisitors” (i.e., antedating their Christian Spanish counterparts by three centuries) removed the children from such families, placing them in the care of Muslim educators 13 . Maimonides, the renowned philosopher and physician, experienced the Almohad persecutions, and had to flee Cordoba with his entire family in 1148, temporarily residing in Fez — disguised as a Muslim — before finding asylum in Fatimid Egypt." So we understand better: "A non-Muslim therefore cannot be a citizen of the State; he is a member of a depressed class; his status is a modified form of slavery. He lives under a contract (zimma, or 'dhimma') with the State: for the life and property grudgingly spared to him by the commander of the faithful he must undergo political and social disabilities, and pay a commutation money. In short, his continued existence in the State after the conquest of his country by the Muslims is conditional upon his person and property made subservient to the cause of Is**m." On "Future Jihad" interview Walid Phares, author: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDFmOWE0MTkzOTUyOGY4NGE2MGY3N2M3YmU4MzlmZDk = "In short, the attacks by Hamas and Hezbollah and the kidnappings of soldiers were the tip of an offensive aimed at drawing attention away from Iran’s nuclear weapons programs and Syria’s assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Hariri. Hezbollah was awaiting its moment for revenge against the Cedar Revolution too." As long as Hezbollah lives like a cancer inside Lebanon, the people of Lebanon don't have a nation, the blood vessels feeding cancer from Damascus and Tehran. For now, there is no Lebanon, only "Rose Mary's Baby" of Dar-al-Jihad infecting the Middle East. More "surgical" strikes are needed by Israel, to remove the cancer. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ivan, I have looked at your posts and concur with them as they outline the aims and goals of the REI movements. These movements have organized on a global scale and share the same objectives. Additionally with the advent of the WWW they have begun to share tactics and adapt to our efforts to counter them. Using the tools of asymetical warfare, information warfare and traditional terorist tactics they are a significant threat to world stability and progress. Through slick and professional use of the media they have managed to inflame the Arab Street by playing to the preconcieved notions present in the mind of the Arab/Islamic masses. In the old days of counter terrorism we used to call it the fight for the hearts and minds of the people. What we need to do is to thank this site and Mohideen Ibramsha for providing us a window into the mind of a educated Islamic Thinker and how that mind views the world. It is clear that despite the best education and desire to live in peace that such minds hold on to some positions and views that are seen as being irrational by the average Westerner raised in the Judaeu Christian tradition and culture. While recovering from poisoning and disruption of the neuro-chemical balance in my brain I explored this REI mindset in detail. In the old days of the intelligence buisness we called it thinking like the enemy. In order to understand the plans and worldview of Osama I read everything that he read in terms of religous doctrine and studied his life history and military service in Afghanistan. I then went on to read his statements and those of his supporters. I found the task deeply disturbing but was able to use that information with my training in analysis to anticipate his actions and reactions and make predictions on what he was planning to do. My analysis also took into account an assessment of external forces that may or may not have influenced his actions on the world stage. These forces included geo-poltical forces and the conflict between the Sunni and Shia Muslims. In all endevors like this the collection of first hand data is essential to making accurate predictions of enemy actions, tactics and strategy. During the years I served as an intelligence officer, I was trained to think like the enemy and this skill along with training in code breaking and information fusion made me one of the best predictive analysts DOD had. In this current war, I had to do the same with regards to the RIE movement, which has now expanded beyound Al Qeada and is morphing into a global movement with shared goals and objectives. As Isreal wraps up its attacks into Lebenon the diffuse global REI movement has begun to react and become more defined. Having conbducted a survey of the Web I note increased retoric, exhanges of information, transfer of funds and support from Islamic buisnessmen and states that support the RIE worldview to RIE supporters. I expect that in the future we will face an increase in terrorist attacks from the RIE movements on a global basis as they wage their version of Jihad. As this RIE movment begins to mature I expect that leaders will emerge and begin to conduct more coordinated sophisticated operations. For good or ill the attacks by Isreal have in the mind of the Islamic Masses, given the Muslims justification for continued operations by the REI organizations within the Islamic World, much as the old IRA was able to use the UK's operations in Belfast to justify continued support for its actions from the Irish dispora around the world. Just some thoughts on this issue from the perspective of analyzing the mind of a Muslim and RIE members. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
I have included just a small sample of the Data I am watching with regards to the morphing of the RIE movement on the global stage. Iraq Iraqi Shiites chant 'Death to Israel' http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060804/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq Indonesia Militants on anti-Israel missions http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060804/wl_nm/security_indonesia_dc;_ylt=ArbqQFa93AtvfhzM6pAECNwUewgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NTMzazIyBHNlYwMxNjk2 Fighting escalates in Philippines http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=false&storyId=44be403d 92aa6b320227d5583c142a35b12d051b All of this data regarding actions in the realworld mirrors that in the discussion posted by Ivan regarding the nature of the RIE movement, its goals and objectives. Just some more food for thought Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
There seem to be three forces at work: 1. War-mongers among the Muslims 2. War-mongers among the non-Muslims and 3. Peace lovers who would go to war to eliminate all future wars (coercion to remove coercion). The book “Management of Savagery” is the product of the first group; its English translation, in my opinion, is the product of the second group. What is the third group to do? If – this is big if – democracy would prevail in non-Muslim land, the war-mongers among the non-Muslims should be supported. This is because it is feared that once the war-mongers among the Muslims succeed, by their design there would be no democracy and thus the arrival of peace depends on the whims and fancies of the war-mongers. Such a development is at best risky. What about the war-mongers among the non-Muslims? In a few countries the process of democracy is already compromised so that the rich are the de-facto rulers. Still the drama of democracy is enacted once every few years. This gives a chance – might be very slim, still a chance – a truly peace loving leader might emerge once the population becomes predominantly peace loving. So let us discuss ways and means of defeating the technique of “Management of Savagery.” From pages 24 and 25 of the 268 page translation found in http://www.ctc.usma.edu/Management_of_Savagery.pdf we have: === In summary, the contemporary renewal movement was purified after momentous events and battles severely damaged it and it accumulated experience during more than thirty years. It must (now) undertake some of the specific operations arranged systematically [nizâm mu`ayyan] and (carry out) what began with the operation of Nairobi and Dar al-Salam for the achievement of the following goals (by the grace of God): A – The first goal: Destroy a large part of the respect for America and spread confidence in the souls of Muslims by means of: (1) Reveal the deceptive media to be a power without force. [10] (2) Force America to abandon its war against Is**m by proxy and force it to attack directly so that the noble ones among the masses and a few of the noble ones among the armies of apostasy will see that their fear of deposing the regimes because America is their protector is misplaced and that when they depose the regimes, they are capable of opposing America if it interferes. B – The second goal: Replace the human casualties sustained by the renewal movement during the past thirty years by means of the human aid that will probably come for two reasons: (1) Being dazzled by the operations which will be undertaken in opposition to America. (2) Anger over the obvious, direct American interference in the Is**mic world, such that that anger compounds the previous anger against America's support for the Zionist entity. It also transforms the suppressed anger toward the regimes of apostasy and tyranny into a positive anger. Human aid for the renewal movement will not dry up, especially when heedless people among the masses – and they are the majority – discover the truth of the collaboration of these regimes with the enemies of the Umma to such an extent that no deceptive veil will be of use and no pretext will remain for any claimant to the Is**m of these regimes and their like. (C) – The third goal: Work to expose the weakness of America’s centralized power by pushing it to abandon the media psychological war and the war by proxy until it fights directly. As a result, the apostates among all of the sects and groups and even Americans themselves will see that the remoteness of the primary center from the peripheries is a major factor contributing to the possible outbreak of chaos and savagery. === What do we desire? An open strategy is desired so that the power of the strategy lays in the knowledge and eventual adoption of the strategy by as large a population as possible. What follows is a first attempt at such a strategy. One of the goals of the US military is possibly to place small but effective contingents of her forces at different locations so that any defiance could be tackled with speed and ease. The current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq do support such a strategy. However as demonstrated by the Palestinians hoping for favorable leaders to emerge through the democratic process is extremely risky. The US should have direct control on at least small regions of these places. We suggest the following: The country Pakistan, created by the WWII victor UK, did not have contiguous land mass. The distance between West Pakistan and East Pakistan was thousands of miles. We refer to Pakistan to establish the rule that ‘a nation state need not have contiguous space.’ Even though the current territory of US is contiguous, it need not remain so; she could add more states spread around the globe. Why should we do that? The following excerpt from page 15 of the book “The White Man’s Burden: Why the West’s efforts to aid the rest have done so much ill and so little good,” by William Easterly published by The Penguin Press, New York, 2006; ISBN 1-59420-037-8 gives the clue. === Even when our politicians are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed, rich democracies somehow work. Political scientist Charles Lindblom in a classic article described rich-country politics as the “science of muddling through.” He noted that in rich democracies “actual policy practice is a piecemeal process of limited comparisons, a sequence of trials and errors followed by revised trials, [and] reliance on past experience.” In other words, politicians in rich countries are Searchers at home. Burke and Popper recognized the economic and political complexity of society. That complexity dooms any attempt to achieve the end of poverty through a plan, and no rich society has ended poverty in this way. It is only when rich-country politicians gaze at the non-voters in the rest of the world that they become Planners. This is another clue to the likelihood of planning: outsiders are more likely to be Planners, while insiders are forced by their fellow insiders to be Searchers. === Instead of seeking satellites as happened during the Cold War, we suggest USA augment herself with additional states in different parts of the world. Since we need rather small spaces to build our outposts for our Army, we need to offer residential citizenship to small desiring populations. [Residential citizenship could be considered to be restricted citizenship that the citizen retains his / her primary residence even though is allowed to have secondary residence in the main land USA. Other than this requirement, a residential citizen enjoys all the privileges and is subject to all the duties of a native citizen of USA.] One immediate candidate could be the state of Israel. Another could be Saudi Arabia. Well the list could be extended in the best way. Once USA acquires territory – own territory – in different parts of the world, the (C) part of the plan of “Management of Savagery” evaporates immediately. Is the above a reasonable first step? We hope to, God Almighty willing, look at the other parts in subsequent posts. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
An interesting idea Mohideen Ibramsha, Your idea regarding territories and residency is interesting, however, the Untied States did do much of what you are saying after the Spanish American War with the territories it captured. It did not work then and given the politics and feelings of the people in the region it is highly unlikely to work in the middle east now. As to the RIEs, the recent surge in decentralized militant activity is increasing with abductions in Nigeria. These actions have have impacted on the price of oil. Oil prices climb after Nigeria abductions http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060804/bs_afp/commoditiesenergyoil_060804110719 In the great game of international poltics control of oil and its price have a large impact on societies. The Chinese have cut deals with Iran, Nigeria and Russian for oil and are looking at other sources. All the great powers are engaging in a careful balancing in order to ensure the world economy does not go into a nose dive, while at the same time trying to advance their interests, power and control. China and Russia supply weapons, technology and intelligence to Iran, Venezuela, and other groups opposed to the United States. This transfer in some cases is direct and in other cases indirect, i.e through Iran for example. The aim of these transfers is to undermine United States power and influence in the world, which is a goal that the share with the RIE's. However, while the great powers who oppose the United States have and are using the RIE's in the Middle East they remain sensitive to the issue of the price of oil and the impact that it has on their economies and are careful to enforce certain red lines on RIE behavior that begins to threaten their economic interests. In the case of the Russian's and Chinese they have thrown their support behind the Shia in Iran and Hezbollah in Lebenon. Osama being a Sunni Muslim is seen as an enemy and his organization as a threat by these same powers. However, Osama and his organization is used and supported by both China and Russia from time to time as a proxy thru cutouts on the great game board of Geo-Politics in the effort to undermine the United States. Recent RIE activity in Nigeria is not in the Chinese interest and it is interesting to note that China makes great effort to paint certain RIE's with the terrorist brush ,like those inspired by Osama, while supporting the ones in Lebenon via Iran. Until such time as the RIE's and the conditions that allowed them to come to power remain, it is hardly likely that they will evaporate and that peace will prevail. The whole situation of RIE's, Global Politics and keeping economies functionings is a very complex situation that defies simple solutions as much as we would like them. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
On a side note, I have studied the mind of religous terrorist leaders and the goals of their organizations for a number years now. I have looked at Aum Shinrikyo, the Branch Dividian's, Al Qaeda, Hezbolla, and a host of others. In all cases I found a charasmatic leader that thought he was inspired by God and who built an organization that was intended to bring about the imposition of their version of what a God inspired society should look like. I then studied the great leaders of all the other worlds major religons and their teachings and found that in almost every case those proclaimed by the religous terrorist leaders violated or were in direct conflict with the principles set forth by the Leaders of the Great Monotheistic and Eastern religions of the world. During my journey through the mind of the religous terrorist leaders, as part of my analysis of their actions, goals, intent and networks, I had to take stock of my own beliefs, faults and characteristics. In doing so I found that I was a human with endowed by my creator with gifts, and that despite damage to the inferior parietal cortex, which is associated with higher math functions, and Broca’s area, which is associated with verbal skills, I can still function at a high level of ability and that with appropriate medication lead a normal productive life. In recovering from this injury, I looked at the teachings of the religous terrorist leaders and the teachings of the great leaders of the modern world's major religions. I was faced with a choice as to which path I would walk down, while damaged I still retained all of my skills with small arms weapons, explosives, biological agents and nuclear weapons. I had also been cross trained in irregular warfare and was left with my skills as a master tactician. In my pain anger and rage I could have used those skills to inflict great harm on the nation whose service left me damaged and those that put me in the line of fire. Instead I listened to what was being said by the world's great religous leaders and elected to walk down the path of Celtic Christianity and lay down my arms. Call it mastering your demons, seeing the light or Jihad it was a struggle I had to wage. In the case of the religious terrorist leaders I studied, they lacked the courage to engage in true self examination and turned their anger and frustration outward rather than look inward and examine their own internal flaws and master their own demons. As our veteran's come home from the current war, they will go thru much the same thing I went through. I hope that they will find the strength to master their own demons, lay down their weapons and find peace, no matter which path they take to enlightenment. For the Muslim people. I have looked at you culture, civilization and relgion and found much greatness and love in it. However, it contains much that I suspect deviates from the true teachings of the prophet. As a tool and mechanism of personal salvation it can lead to much loss of life in that it argues one should pick up the sword to advance its spread. I could have walked down the path of Is**m but could not reconcile killing with service to God. Just some personal thoughts and observations Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
If only it were so, Mohideen, that all peace loving people, both Muslim and non-Muslims, ruled universally. That should be the goal for a future peace on Earth. In yours: "Even though the current territory of US is contiguous, it need not remain so; she could add more states spread around the globe." I should point out that Hawaii and Alaska are not part of the contiguous US national territory. But regardless they obey the laws of the land and consider themselves part of the US both culturally and economically, as well as constitutionally. Adding to these territorial dominions of US democracy and rule of law by annexing other national interests would run into the difficulty that perhaps those nations wish to retain their own national identity, language, culture, religions, etc. I think it a better system to allow for national self determination, but within the framework of constitutional governments and laws that better represent their peoples, so in effect, representative governments germane to the local cultural reality of the nation state. One wonders why Puerto Rico never became a state, but I think this is because they do not wish to. Rather, they want to retain their unique identity, though at the same time enjoying certain benefits of being associated with the US as a protectorate state. Perhaps now still a relic of the Spanish-American war, but their independence may one day happen, but it may or may not be to their benefit in the end. I would support it, personally, provided they do not slide into some petty dictatorship oppressive to their people. I think for freedom loving, and peace loving people to defeat the 'Mein Kemf' or 'my struggle' ('my jihad') type strategies proposed by Naji, it is enough to check their coercions and ambitions as soon as they show themselves, and pursue them until they are unable to continue. This is harsh, a kind of quasi-military police action with teeth, that would at least neutralize their coercively disruptive Jihad ambitions. I do not believe it 'warmongering' to stop crime. But if not followed up with teaching why it is that our principles of government, and principles on which our society is built, why it functions well, and what are our virtues, then the exercise will not eliminate the problem; it would surface again elsewhere at another time. By the same reason, it should not be our interest to 'colonize' those nations who support this Jihad; rather it is better to make them free standing functional nations which we can treat as equals. What does treating them as equals mean? That we all respect principles of good justice, human rights equally for all, and non-corrupt practices of government and commerce, in effect, not empower coercive practices that destroy human agreements. As free human beings, we must protect our agreements free from coercion by others, while at the same time not coercing others into being forced into agreements; coercion is when agreements are forced on us. So the religions should not be touched, though I think it is imperative over time that an equal tolerance of each other's religions, with respect for our different beliefs, be recognized by all parties, all nations. I am against Jihad in its current form, but I am not against Mohammedism, though I would like to see it de-clawed (de politicized) somewhat. Can the present political-religious structures handle that? Only if they are not politicized with an agenda, but are more introspective in their 'jihad' struggle to become better for their own adherents, with the goal of making each person within that religion a better person in return. This would mean evolving a world of loving people, kind to each other, and themselves, and glad for life rather than constantly worrying about going to some real or imagined hell. In effect, it calls for a secularization of political action with respect for the rights and sanctity of the individual; a land of religious freedom, where each person's religious belief is sacred to him or her, but only to him or her. This belief may not be politicized in any way, or it becomes intolerant of other's beliefs. This is the battle for minds and hearts that needs to be won, where good rules rather than evil, and principles of human agreements over those of forced coercions. Then war mongering will fall off like a dead limb, regardless of whether Muslim or non-Muslim. But perhaps my path to peace is overly optimistic. The human mind may not yet have evolved to live in this higher consciousness condition, and so much work needs to be done before such a loving world becomes an Earth reality. I suspect, though cannot know with any certainty, that we are now observed; our world is still that 'dormant' world where the people had not yet awakened to a higher reason. When they do, it will be as natural for us as a human smile. You know how when we dream while asleep, the reality is all confusing? Now imagine that this same dream is happening while awake, and your can instantly recognize what is real is what is not. That's what an 'awake' mind is like, where it can instantly tell good from evil, or spot coercions long before they happen, or a mile away. That is the awakening our planet still awaits, and I suspect others are watching us. When our wakeful dreams are beautiful and real, then the planet awakes into full consciousness. The secret is love. I think we are almost there, but not quite, that's why we are being watched. So, let us hope and pray for a brighter and more beautiful future for our world, not that destructive future envisioned by the likes of Naji, whose whole ambition is to bring about one universal religion that is so much against our human freedoms. We need freedom to express God on Earth, it's the only way we can, for anything else is slavery. We will know when it is working when God is an intensely personal belief, a direct connection unhindered by political and coercive forces who push their agenda on us. Remember what I said: "God can speak to us, be we cannot speak for God." When we understand this, universally, I believe it will be peace. But when? When will Earth awaken? I doubt I will be witness, unless I too can monitor it from the other side. Thanks for your inputs on this. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ed, you echo my sentiments exactly. I know what you are saying from deep inside my heart, because I too had been to Muslim lands and met wonderful people. For me, what is happening there now, the riots, killings and suicides, and hatreds fanned at Friday prayers by ignorant mullahs, ignorant of their own religion, is a heart wrenching tragedy. I do not hate them at all, but on this only feel deep pity. And all that violence just has to go, it has no longer a place on Earth. But why do mullahs teach so much hate? There's the problem. The people themselves must say "STOP"! But they haven't done that. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Without love, what good is life? Without Love, God is no god at all. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
I think you hit the nail on the head Ivan, Without love life is meaningless. In studying the mind of the RIEs and other militatnt fundamentalist groups and leaders, both Christian and non-christian, I have found that they lack the ability to understand love or the mind of God. For example one minister I know and respect gave a sermon on the story in the bible where David was retreaving the Ark to bring it back to Jeuruselem. He put the Ark onto a cart and appointed some priests to ride in the cart with it. During the trip the ark began to fall and one of the priests touched it to stop it falling and was struck dead by God. A simple story which when you read the passage on the surface seems to indicate that God struck the man dead because he violated the rules governing how the ark was to be transported. It was supposed to be carried and not put in a cart. The minister went on to say that to really understand the story you had to understand what was happening at the time. David during the period was trying to rebuild his authority and the power of his state and wanted the Ark back to be used as a symbol of his divine mandate to rule. In doing so he looked upon the Ark as a commodity/item that could be used to do that. With the priests he selected being used to support that attempt and by thier actions being and extension of his plan an thus being just as guilty as him of attempting to use an artifact of God for material political purposes. The crime God punnished in that particular case the preacher went on to indicate, when taken in that context, was far greater than violation of mere rules of how you transport the Ark. It was punishment designed to teach all involved about the magnitude of the crime of attempting to use God and possession of his works and artifacts touched by him as a mechanism for justifying political actions and establishing a mandate to rule. In effect showing David that god will not be dictated to by man and that his attempt to use God for his purposes was futile. By extension it also showed David that he was but a man that God raised up to serve a purpose and that when that purpose was fulfilled God was free to work his will as he saw fit, in other places through other men and women and that David's attempt to control and dictate where God would go or be located was the greatest of crimes. I offer that example as an illustration of the difference in the mind and worldview of the ministers I associate with in comparison to that of the RIEs and other militant fundamentalist leaders in the world today. Much like that Ark, I have cross my grandfather retrieved from a SS officer he killed in WW II when his unit was diverted to help support liberation and relief operations at the Dauchu Death Camp. The SS Officer was fleeing the Dauchu area and had been involved in the Dauchu Operation. He would not surrender and tried to resist when my grandfather came up on him. My grandfather found an autographed copy of Hittler's book along with the cross in the possesion of the SS Officer after he killed him. My family has kept that cross since that time along with the book. During the war my grandfather served under Patton and had a number of vehicles shot out from under him. He suffered nerve damage as a result of drinking water from a well during the war that had been laced with a neurotoxin by the Nazi's as they retreated out of France. While he lay in a hospital bed recovering from that exposure he heard the V2 flying overhead to smash London. When he was able he got up out that bed and rejoined his unit to fight in the Battle of the Buldge. To his dying day he was haunted by what he saw in Duachu more than anything. We keep that cross in the memmory of the Six Million and the stain that Hittler put on it and what it took to cleanse it. To his dying day my grandfather thought that in that cold field in Germany when he faced the SS Officer that he came face to face with a devil from hell itself. He was an Irishman of celtic ancestry. He lived a simple life after the war and drank to ease the pain from the damage to his CNS from the NAZI neurotoxin. What his views on religion were I don't know. But I suspect that was he alive today that he would view the RIE's the same way he viewed the NAZI's Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ed, I think Love is the Mind of God. Where did people go wrong on this? Probably when those little ego filled humans wanted to pump themselves up with grandeur and decided that, for whatever justification they mustered up in their little minds, that now they are empowered to speak for God. Big mistake. Even the Saudi religious leader who inspired the RIE movement, as a mentor to OBL, now has a change of heart, as per this: Saudi religious leader blasts Hizbullah "Hizbullah, which translates as "the party of God," is actually "the party of the devil," said Sheik Safar al-Hawali, whose radical views made the al-Qaida leader one of his followers in the past." People's hearts can change. Hate need not stay hate for all time, if there is genuine love in their hearts. Evil is not from God, but from that all too weak and fallible human heart and psyche. We can be so much more. Those little ego inflated self important people who inspire others to hate are not filled with God's love at all, but the opposite. However, realistically, one must also accept that the voices of hate would fall on deaf ears if the listeners were not already filled with hate in their hearts. But how do you root out this evil heart? One way is through education and enlightenment, which is what we strive to do here. The other way is through punishment, which by default is what happens in war, when tyranny is defeated and the people who support it are punished, or killed. I prefer the first, but also understand that sometimes the latter is the only option when faced with evil violence. It is a great day indeed when you see those who may have been responsible for feeding small hate filled egos reach out for people's hearts with teaching that hate is wrong, as the Saudi Sheik did. Is it too late? Are the armies of hate already too powerful? We will do what we must do, but I leave the rest to God. After all, if we are God's children, then it is up to us to learn what is God's Love. We don't have to listen to those evil ego voices of hate. The battle between good and evil is the battle between God's Love and our small world of ego hatreds. I know which will win, but I do not know how we will do so. As freedom loving people, I know we will win. The devil has no chance, if we understand what is happening here. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Your idea regarding territories and residency is interesting, however, the Untied States did do much of what you are saying after the Spanish American War with the territories it captured. It did not work then … Ed Chesky Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 08:19 am: Anonymous Once there is a fight and a winner and a loser, the relationship is poisoned. Once a drop of poison is added to glass milk, it is poison. I do not know of any technique of removing the poison from the milk and making it whole. I did not mention Afghanistan, Iraq or Lebanon as potential candidates. I mentioned Israel and Saudi Arabia. There are some special requirements with respect to these two areas: they are religion specific. However, the First Amendment would come in the way for these states. We suggest the following to satisfy the religious requirements under the US law. The current Governor of California is not eligible to become the President of USA. Likewise, the new state of Israel or Saudi Arabia could insist that the person desirous of representing the population of the state should have born in that state; should have served in the Armed Services of the state prior to its integration with USA. For those born after the integration, at least one parent or grand parent should have served in the Armed Forces prior to integration. The point is one could always draft a law that satisfies the current members of these states and the US without violating any US Law. These states are mentioned as possible candidates for integration as they are friendliest states to USA, even though they might be at each other’s throat. The state of Benin also might be considered. This suggestion is made purely as a random choice. Any other state could be named instead of Benin. The nation state to be absorbed as a member state of USA should not be at war with USA. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Amusing idea, but... I'm not sure I follow what you are getting at here. Are you suggesting other nations join the United States of America voluntarily? Or through conquest? What purpose would that serve? Should national integrity of self-determination be abolished? Then why stop with annexing any one nation? Why have the United States annex, while other nations are not allowed equal priviledge? Could Saudi Arabia annex, let's say, random choice, Iraq or Israel, or Afghanistan? Mohideen, I appreciate your input with this idea, but other than as an amusing fiction, something worthy of a novel or film script, I fail to see any real application. What purpose would any of this serve? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Are you suggesting other nations join the United States of America voluntarily? Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 03:43 pm: Ivan Yes, by mutual agreement. Earlier we used to have bases in other countries. Even now we have some. The conquest of Afghanistan and Iraq does facilitate the creation and maintenance of bases. This process of conquest is necessary as we have first decided upon the locations and have gone about ‘regime change.’ We have ‘Immigration Lottery.’ Invariably the number of applications is many orders of magnitude. That means a lot of people from a large number of countries desire to start life afresh in the US system of life. By sounding small countries with small populations to integrate with us we get the bases and the people to man them. Since they become part of our country the loyalty would be permanent. As with the ‘free trade areas’ when US integrates – not annex – different small countries around the globe, other countries also are free to integrate with other nations. In a bipolar world it was possible that the USSR could have integrated with another small nation next to our integral part. Since we are the sole super power now, I believe we are at an advantage. In my mind, US could grow whereas other wannabe super powers would find it difficult to grow. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Mohideen, are you suggesting a kind of "mutually agreed upon confederation" of nations? Something like what the EU is going through now? Interesting idea, at least in principle, though in practice I can see problems. The first problem is serious 'incompatibility' between cultures. How do you merge nations whose basic modus operandi is so different, let's say between a constitutional democracy built on principles of personal freedoms and an autocratic theocracy built upon strict obedience to the rulers? These are mutually exclusive principles of government, and cultures, about as different as say the United States and Saudi Arabia. Can you imagine American women denied the right to drive? Or Saudi women dressing as they personally choose to dress? Not to mention the thousands of other little and large restrictions Sharia laws demands, including public stonings, as opposed to the largely 'laissez fair' laws of free countries. Then there is the problem of people moving about. Who will move where? Would they be free to move about, or would restrictions apply? Mostly, these population shifts are out of the less successful society to the more successful, not the other way around. Look again at Europe, and how hard north Africans and others are trying to get in there. Do you see Europeans tearing down barbed wire fences to break into Mali or Nigeria, or Somalia? So the population pressures would be uneven. In practice, if there are large divergences in both economic and social success, or serious incompatibility at other levels, it is like marrying two people who just don't belong together. Maybe they can work it out over time, but it would come at a great cost, to both parties with unhappiness, degradation of wealth, ill will, maybe even outright violence, where one is abused while the other claims to be abused. So, agreements are not something that can just happen willy nilly. It takes a lot of hard work to come to agreements, to make things work, and mutual agreements are to be treasured, especially when they work, but not guaranteed to work. So if there is compatibility at some important level that is attractive to both parties, then it can work. But can you imagine Russian joining the EU? I can't really. What about Turkey? They are a modern secular state, but their laws and human rights record stinks, and now they are pressured from inside to return to a Sharia type social order. How would a Sharia state, like Iran, which clearly is opposed to human freedoms as defined in the West, fit into a world where freedoms are desired, and not only understood, but they work! Why do you think people want to move to free countries, and not the other way around? I actually personally know people who voluntarily moved from the US to Iran, in recent times, and now regret it. But how many Iranians living abroad, or Europeans, or Americans, are desirous of migrating to Iran, though their president says they are "the most free people on Earth"? Not many. How many Iranians would move to the West? I suspect a lot, and with them their problems too. I think, as a first step, is that it is far easier to stop coercions than making agreements. Peace is where the coercions stop. Let's start there. Then, once the parties involved have addressed this issue not only internationally, but also internally, then perhaps some sort of compatibility can be established to form meaningful and lasting agreements. But internally means stopping coercions against the people of their nation, giving them rights as free human beings, and honoring their wishes in a democratic process. Can you see this in Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Algeria, just to name a few? If our worlds are that far apart, what could ever bring them together, if the differences are deeply ingrained internally? What about freedom of the press? What about equal rights for men and women? What about due process on a judicial level, and checks and balances on a governmental level? These things western nations have, but are still absent from many eastern countries, most of which are virtual dictatorships. Can you imagine China, as a Communist state, joining the EU? Anyway, I hope you get the idea, that just because we wish to have agreements does not make them happen. It takes real work. And even then, it takes more work, just to keep them alive. What may appear nice on paper, such as a confederation of nations, needs some real basis for it, or it cannot work. (I don't consider the UN as a confederation of nations, but more as a non-binding 'forum' of nations, and not very effective at that.) The realistic basis for peace is for people to take matters into their own hands internally first, make themselves more suitable as 'suitors' on a world stage, as free people, and then perhaps some sort of 'marriage' agreement between states might work. Otherwise, 'free trade agreements' is about all we can do for now, which seems to work. Or perhaps this is all you meant, trading compacts between nations? Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
These are mutually exclusive principles of government, and cultures, about as different as say the United States and Saudi Arabia. Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:30 pm: Ivan I suggested Israel and Saudi Arabia as I feel the rulers of these two countries are very friendly with the US. Once the rulers agree to become Governors instead of Kings and Presidents, they could sell the merger to their populations. I hope to consider the issue of overcoming cultural differences in a subsequent post. My immediate concern is that of positioning RDF (Rapid Deployment Force) around the globe. If the force has to fly from the US shores to different trouble spots it might take more than 12 hours. These 12 hours could be large enough to cause changes in governments. I believe a deployment time of 1 hour would be best, but might not be realizable immediately. May be some 4 hours could be effective most of the time. In the FTA issue, before looking to Mexico we did arrive at the agreement with Canada. The reason is Canada is culturally closer to us than Mexico. Similarly the integration with small nations with small populations would proceed initially with those nations that are culturally compatible with us. I suggest small populations keeping in mind the economic price paid by West Germany when it united with East Germany. When the small nation joins us, we need to improve the standard of life of the people of the small nation to approach that of ours. To start with we could implement the ‘minimum wage’ in the integrated small nation. The finances required for this change could be extended by the Federal Government as interest free loan to the new state of USA. Such addition of say nations with less than 1 million populations would not strain our economy while it would indeed make the people of the new state happy. Once the standard of life is improved in the new state the pressure to migrate would be low. The people of the new state need not undergo emotional sacrifice as the migrants from countries like Iran. They live with all their relations but at a higher standard. Once we reduce the deployment time as much as possible by integrating say 2 small nations in each continent, we could then expand to those nations that are culturally different if required. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
These are mutually exclusive principles of government, and cultures, about as different as say the United States and Saudi Arabia. Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 06:30 pm: Ivan Let us look at the cultural side of the integration. First and foremost I would not like to violate the rule that inside the Arabian Peninsula the only religion could be Is**m. How do we approach that while making the Arabian Peninsula a state of USA? When the USA was young most spaces in her were free and anyone desirous of settling inside USA was given space to cultivate and raise a family. Today the only possibility is for an immigrant to buy a small apartment under mortgage and then pay off that mortgage by working for the rest of his / her life. Currently the ‘Empty Quarter’ in Saudi Arabia is unpopulated. So anyone could possibly ask for a piece of land there and could settle down and raise a family. We create the condition of scarcity there as it exists now in USA. We divide all the free land inside Saudi Arabia and assign them to the existing population. That means no free land. Further to settle down the immigrant has to buy the land. What is happening in East Jerusalem now? Are the Arabs living there selling houses to the Jews? There is so much of social pressure that no Arab family would sell property openly to a Jew. We could expect such a behavior among the inhabitants of the new state of Saudi Arabia that they as a social contract would not sell to a non-Muslim. Muslims alone could settle inside the new state. This restriction is not by law but by social practice. Do you build a Church for a tourist? You build a Church for a resident Christian. In the absence of resident non-Muslim there is no requirement to build any place of worship other than a Masjid. Well initially the above would overcome cultural tension. However as time proceeds, as generations of new persons replace the old generations, things might change. Even today inside the ARAMCO compound the ladies enjoy all the freedom that is enjoyed inside USA. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
While Mohideen Ibramsha offers a vision for a future of peace, it is highly unlikely to come to pass. At present forces in the Middleast are dividing on Sunni and Shia lines. This division is lead by the RIE's whose end goal is the establishement of an Islamic Super State in the Middle East and Asia. One group has the goal of establishing a Shia based state and the other a Sunni based one. Osama bin Laden's Scary Vision of a Grand Muslim Super State http://hnn.us/articles/7378.html What price for an Islamic state? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3225102.stm The quest for SE Asia's Islamic 'super' state http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/07/30/seasia.state/ At present it is clear from the recent actions of the Shia leadership in the Middle East, with the exception of Al Sistani in Iraq, that the aims of Iran, Hezbolla and Hamas is the establishment of a Shia version of such a state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistani It is against this backdrop that recent events in the Middle East are being played out. It is clear from his postings that Mohideen Ibramsha would like nothing better than to see a end to the violence that is plaguing the Middle East, however, his proposal with regards to the formation of a new poltical entity in the Middle East is nieave at best. At present the nation states of Suadi Arabia, Egypt and the other Muslim countries in the region are employing brutal security practices in order to maintain control of their countries and suppress the RIE movements which enjoy widespread support within the nations of the Middle East. Given the forces at play in the Middle East it is highly likely that the bloodshed and that societal tensions present in the region will continue to increase within the near term. I hope that credible voices of reason within the Islamic world, like Sistani, will continue to exercise control and act as a counter to the Shia and Sunni RIE's. However, I expect that these moderate figures are subject to the realities of mob pressure exerted by the, "Arab Street" that has and will be continued to inspired by the continuing violence in the region. I also expect that these leaders will find their ability to influence events being limited by the pressure of the exercised by the, "Arab Street" and will be of little use in combating the spread of the RIE organizaations. In terms of poles and seats of power and influence in the RIE world view there currently exist seats of power in Mecca Saudi Arabi, Qom Iran, and Najaf Iraq. Of those seats of power the ones in Mecca and in Qom are actively engaged in a struggle for control of the nature of the future Super State. It is also interesting to note that the seat in Najaf continues to seeks to exercise a moderating influence on the Shia seat in Qom, but is enjoying little success in this endevor. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Beyond the First Level of Reason.
I totally agree with you Ed, that Mohideen's proposal is both naive and dangerous to world security. It would represent a giant step backwards, where a thousand years of European civilization advancements would be erased by a quasi-Sharia state, first in the Saudi Arabian land as 'acceptable' to the West, which would open the West for jihad conquest, of Europe first, and then America, etc. In effect, Mohideen is showing us his cards, his agenda, for Muslim world conquest. This is typical 'first order' subjective reason in response to 'second order' objective reason, where the more primititve culture of the first is being supplanted by the more modern culture of the second, which is more successful universally than the first, and the cultures clash. Because in their self endulgent fiction, Arabs believe themselves superior to humankind, this crass disparity makes them crazy, and they react with violence, to destroy the second order of civilization, which is ours. I cannot call it a "clash of civilizations" because these two cultures are so uneven, one being post-biblical koranic pre-medieval cultures, where human freedoms do not exist and slavery is the norm; versus a pro-freedom anti-slavery culture of the post-Enlightenment period in Europe and America, where religion is a personal thing. In his world, religion is both the rule of law and the political force of the land. What a difference between the first and second order of mind! Are Muslims moving en masse to Europe to conquer? No, they're just trying to get away from the misery and squalor of their own world. Are mullahs and imams then taking advantage of their large numbers in Europe to advance their jihadic ambitions? You betcha! They see this as their golden opportunity to spread their power and (repressive) Sharia to the rest of the world, starting with Europe. Will they, or Mohideen-alikes, succeed in their ambitions? No, because they are operating on the first level of reason only, and don't understand the second. Never mind teaching them the third, on the power of human freedom, because they cannot get it, at all. They are stuck in their primitive mode of thinking, which is a repressive theocratic power ordering everyone what to do and think. Freedom is the last thing on their mind, in fact, they are severely threatened by it. Unfortunately for us, their misery and squalor, and injustices to humanity, follow them here. Look at their world, and compare that to ours. So when Mohideen says: He is once again pushing the only thing his 'one dimensional' reason can understand, how to promote Mohammedism. In effect, this is Mohideen's 'jihad'. This is evidenced by his not responding to ideas of individual freedom, or government of the people by the people, but in always contrasting religions, his own against Christianity, etc. He cannot think outside the box of religious thinking, which is a 'first order' mindset. In the end, it is false reasoning and false intentions, in that his only purpose is to promote more masjid lands, more sharia laws, more his one dimensional thinking. Mohideen tries to bring into his thought processes the idea of 'agreement vs. coercion' but it always comes up the same, more coercion against humanity, where humanity is forcibly pushed back down to the first level of reason again. The difference between faith-based reason and reality-based reason, as described here, makes no impression on him whatsoever. So all he knows is what he 'believes' to be true, even if it is non-testable fiction. He cannot see that. Worse, it is a violent fiction which hates our freedoms. Worse still is that their world is failing, at every level of measure. Take away their oil wealth, and they go back to tending camels. No, it will not happen. Can we convince him to see this? No. Alas, this is a lost cause, because he appears unable to reason beyond his first level. This is a prime example of 'ideology abrogating reason' discussed earlier, on the other thread. Frankly, I am surprised he chose to live in the USA, a land built on principles of freedom, rather than in some Sharia based state, from which people want to emmigrate. No, it is not so strange, but regrettable that it is so. They escape repression of their world, but then only want to reinstitute that same repressions here. It's all in their minds, and no matter where they go, their minds go with them. Our freedoms are not to be sacrificed to their repressions. My regrets. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The difference between faith-based reason and reality-based reason, as described here, makes no impression on him whatsoever. Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 06:14 pm: Ivan Shall we call reality-based reason as faith-free reason? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The difference between faith-based reason and reality-based reason, as described here, makes no impression on him whatsoever. Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 06:14 pm: Ivan Let us look at the concepts enunciated ‘here’ in http://www.humancafe.com/discus/messages/88/89.html?1154906561#POST1446 Three levels of reasoning are mentioned: subjective, objective, and universal. Quoting, we have: === If we can think something, believe it, we are operating at the subjective level of reason. === This level of reason is displayed by everyone including children. When discussing strategies for ushering in peace which strategy should be considered: strategy appealing to all or appealing to a small group and ignored by the rest? We see the street getting angry; demonstrating; resulting in physical damage. I appeal to the street so that there is a chance for peace to evolve. (I believe our discussions are read by many.) Is**m declares war on usury. Bank interest is usury. In the West there are a number of Muslims who need to buy real estate. Without that they run the risk of becoming ‘street-citizens’ once they stop working. The only way one gets real estate in USA is through mortgage. An individual earning about $75,000 an year is eligible for a mortgage of $350,000 resulting in monthly payments of about $2,300 over a period of 30 years. We assume that the individual would end up paying a rent of $2,500 a month for a comparable accommodation in the same locality. Thus whether the person buys a house under mortgage or continues to rent, the monthly outflow is the same. A number of devout Muslims refuse to accept mortgage. They do not mind paying rent. Exploiting this psychology, a number of Muslim Banks / lenders have evolved a scheme wherein they call as rent what is actually the interest. They use the same software used by the banks to calculate the monthly payments including rent while the banks calculate the monthly mortgage including the interest. They simply change the label. Such a change in label seems to satisfy the devout Muslims and the Muslim lenders do brisk business in real estate. When I suggested a scheme to retain the faith of the Muslim street that we distribute all the land in the Arabian Peninsula to the current Muslim population and let their social norms takeover, I was attempting to induce the street to accept becoming a part of USA. I know that the street abhors USA now. It calls for special measures to overcome the unenviable situation the West has landed itself with the street. May I ask you a question? What do we want: satisfaction of a few philosophers who think at the universal level of reason or the pacification of the street so that violence dies down? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
No.
For most people this is self-evident logic. You cannot reverse the order by saying that "everything we can think of includes the objective" to eliminate the distinction between the two. They are different, one is tested only internally by the mind against its 'true' beliefs; while the other is tested against the mind of reality as to what reality says is true. One submits to the mind of man; while other submits to the 'mind of the universe' (third level of reason), or what some people call 'God'. Are you desirous (in your belief) to do God's will? If so, you better pay attention to what the universe is telling you, not what people are telling you. The test is reality, and that's second order thinking, objective. Are religious radicals objective thinkers? Only in how they can do violence and take over by force. Their 'objective' is only to coerce, in the name of their 'subjective belief'. Jihad fits this pattern perfectly. Anyone who supports this Jihad by force (rather than teaching) is supporting violation of doing God's will. Why do you think all other religions dropped this "teaching by force" method? They evolved beyond raw coercion. What's wrong with your radicals? Their Jihad is savagery on the first order. Deeds prove the fact, using women and children as human shields, faking photo journalism reports on the casualties, firing indiscriminantly at civilian populations without warning, kidnapping and beheadings, suicide bombings indiscriminate of targeting civilians, secterian killings, and the list goes on. Promoting this kind of violent coercive behavior is against God, and a complete collapse in doing God's will. Should Jihad be fought, using coercion to stop coercion? Yes, we must fight it, to the end. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Are you desirous (in your belief) to do God's will? If so, you better pay attention to what the universe is telling you, not what people are telling you. Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 07:17 am: Ivan Why not pay attention to the Word of God? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ivan, Continuation of this dialog is only helpful from the perspective that it clearly illustrates the worldview and mindset of the minds produced in the Islamic world under the instruction of the current religious leadership in the Middle East. The views expressed here by Mohideen Ibramsha, are useful in seeing why we have not made more progress in Iraq and the Middle East in reforming those societies and nation states we have relationships with. It is clear that this conflict against Jihad will continue for a long time to come, to the detriment of the bulk of the Muslim population. Both you and I have used every tool of logic, predictive analysis and analytic thought to try and change the world view of Mohideen Ibramsha. To date this effort has not resulted in any appreciable shift in his thinking. In my mind any hopes I had of changing the mindset of the Middle East Muslims in the near term have grown dim. In terms of my views on morality, understanding of god and ethics I would have to give the RIEs and their supporters in the Middle East a grade of F. Over the course of history many have tried to sway the World View of the Muslims by force of arms, dialog and by acts of faith. None have succeded to date in getting them to accept that coercion is counter productive and to lay down the tools of it in their society, culture and religion. As a Cletic Christian I beleive that there are many paths to salvation and understanding of God and the universe. Some are longer and harder than others and, in my opinion, the Muslim RIE and their supporters have embarked down one of the longest and most difficult paths to enlightenment that is possible. One that will bring them face to face with their own demons which they will have to master, and of which failure to do so will result in the destruction of their culture as they know it. I think my time on this site is at an end. I will visit it from time to time to see what is up and may drop a posting from time to time, but am moving on in my life and have much left to do. For a time I stood at the height of predictive analysis. Call it what you will a gift, a curse a blessing, the power of God, the holy spirit, skill at pattern recognition or something else yet to be named. When given the opportunity to predict earthquakes I did so in a way not to terrify or enforce a view of God but to rather to bring warning to threatened populations. My geometry lead me down thought paths and ideas I have explored in an effort to understand the principles behind the drawings I made. To some my predictions seemed the work of magic or god. To others the work of a skilled brillient mind that had been bestowed with all the training on understanding of forces nature the best teachers in the most advanced nation on the face of the earth could impart to a man. To others it was the ravings of a brillient yet mad mind. Who is to say what enabled me to make those predictions. For me it was as if for a moment I touched the mind of God and during that brief period of time could look upon the fabric of creations and discern its pattern and those beings inhabiting it. In the old days some would have said it was prophecy. Regardless of its cause, I have survived it, and am rebuilding my life as a normal, yet damaged man with many scars, both spiritual and physical internal and external in what I call a personal battle against the forces of darkness in this world and hell itself. I wish you well and will drop in from time to time to see what is going on. All My Best Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Both you and I have used every tool of logic, predictive analysis and analytic thought to try and change the world view of Mohideen Ibramsha. To date this effort has not resulted in any appreciable shift in his thinking. Ed Chesky Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:38 pm: Anonymous Ed as you had been blessed in your predictions that came true, I had also been blessed. The ‘Law of Equality’ defines the maximum revenge permitted, the best revenge being forgiveness. See http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=law+of+equality&translator=2&searc h=1&start=0 From May 1978 to March 1983 I was struggling with a rumor that more or less destroyed the future of one of my brilliant students. In May 1978 the student was in tears that he was suspected of illegal relations with the wife of my colleague; in early March 1983 the same student, married and well settled by then, gave me the information that helped me identify the rumor monger. The rumor monger was punished by another rumor. I have experienced a part of my faith in my life. So I never thought my interactions with you and Ivan and others were to change my view. I thought it was to find ways and means of achieving peace. I must state that the issue of apostasy that was raised by Ivan helped me understand my religion better. I have gained by the interaction. I thought that having written a program to ‘Find Logical Errors in Decision Table Programs’ in 1971 I knew analytic thought. May be I need to brush up and read ‘predictive analysis.’ I would be grateful if you could give me some references on that. I might bore you by repeating that the time and place of our death is recorded on the 120th day of our conception. So I cannot wish for longer life; I do wish you good health and happiness. Your mention of trisecting an angle had me thinking. Ivan has my email ID. If you could communicate your email ID to me through Ivan, I would like to discuss about m-secting an angle. Hope you oblige. All the best. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Why is it " No Moslem preacher has ever blown himself up"? This was forwarded to me by my friend Alex in Boston, so posting it, as it is very clear minded on what Hesbollah and terror are all about. --Ivan Speech by Haim Harari on War on Terror Read it all here: http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Haim%20Harari.htm FYI. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ed, don't underestimate the power of intuitive thinking. We are connected in ways we still cannot understand. But it works, I know. Will Mohideen ever change his mind? Well, judging by his insistance that there is a 'time factor' involved between subjective reason and objective reason, I can only hope it does not take him too long. Certainly wish him well, and sorry he is tied into such a regressive philosophy. But not our problem. Thanks friend for all your great thoughts. I might wrap this up before long as well, have other things to do. Here is an interesting blog report from BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4775393.stm Humancafe's forums are a kind of blog, but more 'boutique' than for mass market. We get about 300 visitors per day, plus or minus, and ideas get rippled out into the world, in their own time. It's low cost, spartan, and that's how it will stay, at least for now. Ideas have a life of their own, so not pressured to push them. They find their audience in time. Cheers, thanks to all, readers as well as writers, Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=342 Obsession and America's Future -- the video. "Like the Nazis before them, followers of this modern fascism are quite clear and confident about their objectives, particularly when speaking in the comfort of their native language and to a familiar media outlet. Obsession's creators have merely bridged the gap between their world and ours, presenting direct translations of their own words for English-speaking audiences. From the words of young children whose innocent eyes are inherently incongruous with their self-professed goals of martyrdom and acts of terror against Jews to the stories of dissidents, those individuals who have actively separated themselves from the indoctrination of their cultures and faced the repercussions of their independent thought, Obsession chronicles the threat of Islamist terrorism that, while most Americans only noticed it on 9/11, has been growing into a very real and very powerful danger for decades." Be alert. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Your religion's definition of 'usury' is meaningless jargon. Bank interest is the 'cost of money over time' for letting someone surrender it to someone else, over time. That cost can be paid for either in interest, or fees, or dividends, or 'profit sharing', or any way you can work it out by agreement, even in camels if you wish. It is the cost of money over time that you call usury. Your loss, bad semantics, and bad economic policy. If you want to lend your money over time and assume all the risk of possible loss without any reward, or payment in exchange, then do so. I will be first to line up and get some. Calling bank interest usury is unrealistic and primitive ideology. You believe it? Fine, then let your money out of your hands at no cost, your business, but do not expect everyone else to do so. Most of us, for risk and time, get compensated somehow. No wonder eastern economies are such a mess! You have no economic understanding, except "what was written" which was mostly old farts sitting around making stories by the fireside. Sorry case. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Le Chef |
The Brilliant Alchemist - Master of Death  Mohammud = anti-liberty = tyranny over mind of man = sexual abuse = mental self-deceit abuse = submission to rules-rules = more rules = intolerance = punishments = war cult = submission to dateofdeath = pure submission = slavery  What kind of world had Mohammud created where the slaves WANT TO BE SLAVES in submission to his alleged "word of god" appointed date-of-death war-cult? His anti-liberty slavery-cult is pure evil-genius. When the master say "blow yourself up" .. They do! Is this a religion of peace? More like religion of killing and death. This perfect slavery-war-killing-cult-machine no man can undo. The slaves will punish themselves, and each other, AND YOU, for wanting liberty. Personal freedoms are impossible in the machine. Mohammud created a race of men doomed to be mechanical slaves forever - until they die. This brilliant evil alchemy found the perfect "Elixir of Death", and the slaves feed on it daily - until they die. Their elixir makes them say "we love death!", and the brain stops .......................... ............. ........ .... .. tick tick tick. Boooom!!! Once you drink the Elixir, you can never return to normal life - of freedom - of love - of beauty -of joy. You must bow mechanically to your new Master of Death - the Prophet of Doom. All happiness in your life is gone. Evil rules through the Master of Death, and YOU are now the living-dead in the Temple of Doom. God has an infinite sense of humor for creating such a monstrosity. Too bad it makes the rest of humanity cry... Bad joke God... Oh? You did Not mean "Death"? Did you mean "Peace"? Ahhh!! You mean Mo-ham-mud got it wrong? Thank God!! Glory be! Hallellulleeeahhh!!! Let there be Love and Peace forever - until we die! We are saved from E#vil!!! Le Chef-Indiana | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
"Oh? You did Not mean "Death"? Did you mean "Peace"? Ahhh!! You mean Mo-ham-mud got it wrong? Thank God!!" Mo-ham-bone got it wrong. "We love peace!" not death. That was the real God message of "Peace be upon you." Jews and Christians maybe got it wrong too, but not that wrong. Mo really blew it! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Your loss, bad semantics, and bad economic policy. Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 05:51 pm: Ivan The difference between the Is**mic point of view and your point of view is again attributable to subjective reason followed by me and the objective reason advocated by you. We believe in Heaven and Hell. That belief changes our behavior in this life. See http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=40+days+livelihood&translato r=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all Our livelihood is decided. What is not decided is the kind of livelihood: would it mix usury or would it be free of usury. We prefer to have it free of usury. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
WHEN ALL IS 'SAID' AND DONE. From the BBC: Text: Hezbollah leader defiant Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah gives an address on Wednesday 9 August, where he gives a 'state of the war' report. In his speech he says: "Here, I come to the field developments in the ongoing war. In the last televised speech, I said that the enemy will resort to, in light of the continued military failures, further attacks against the infrastructure, civilian installations, and civilians. This is exactly what has been taking place; namely, more massacres..."But what is he saying exactly to "Arab street"? Let us do a comparison between words and deeds:
This in essence is the best of 'takiyya' or lying, because in their holy teachings "war is deceit", and Nasrallah as an ayatollah knows that game well. Israel uses good intelligence and precision targeting, drop leaflets to warn the population where strikes are to happen as much as two weeks in advance; Hezbollah does none of this, and they strike primarily at civilian targets for maximum human damage, while they cry about 'civilian' deaths. These deaths are then polished for the West's media consumption, sometimes staged. Those who did not leave when warned are not all civilians, but often their own fighters who are hiding behind their women and children. In effect, we can say that what Naszrallah is saying against Israel is exactly what he himself and his crew are guilty of, so projecting onto the 'other'. They are killing civilians, losing great numbers of their fighters, and are proving secretive and deceitful. But then again, in their world, "war is deceit", so they lie in the same way Saddam's defense minister lied to his people, that they were close to victory against the American forces. But this is being played to "Arab street", where the audience is so used to lies they will actually believe it. The reality is just the opposite of everything Nasrallah said. Can they win with this strategy? Only if the West allows them to. This is the voice and face of Is**mic Radicalism: deceit. We must NEVER empower lies, and they cannot win. Ivan Sheikh Nasrallah's full text: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4779757.stm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
The day the enemy became 'Islamic fascists' http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14304397/ Not pulling any punches, impressive our 'dhimmih' press tells it like it is, no apology. Know your enemy is the first rule of war. Lock and load, rock'n roll is next. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ashcroft finds his niche in private sector Ex-attorney general helps controversial firms get homeland security deals http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14295056/ In the fight against Islamic Fascists we have to be careful not to sacrifice our freedoms to corporations as the government out-sources its data collection and mining efforts. In an effort to expand these types of operations Ashcroft is actively pushing for an expansion of Data Mining Technology by the private sector, with little or no federal oversight. Like all technologies developed during wartime this is a double-edged sword. During its use against the Islamic Fascists it will mature and become more advanced. When that war ends people will not abandon the technology but then look for other uses of it. Thus, opening a door for abuses of government power where the government or private sector then starts to identify groups that pose a threat to ordered society and then turns the technology against them. First would come the criminals and deviants, such as pedophiles. After the door has been opened for action against these groups comes possible actions against other groups designated as being deviant. The question as to what groups and what criteria is given the power and are used to designate such groups as posing a threat to society or corporate interests is essential to ensuring that the power of such technology is not abused. The American people have a long history of challenging the government and cherishing freedom of speech and religion. Perceptions of intrusions on privacy, the freedom to practice religion and perceived government heavy handedness have lead to such events as Oklahoma City Waco, Ruby Ridge and the like. Below the surface of the American society is a deep well and distrust of the current government and its efforts to expand its' ability to spy on the population. In reaction to this tension, elements of the population have taken positions in opposition to the policies of the current American administration. This opposition has ranged from the rise of an anti-war movement in political arena and legal challenges before the Supreme Court. It has also given rise to a number of other movements that we are just beginning to identify within less visible portions of our society. A few decades ago we saw the rise of militia movements and networks in reaction to perceived abuses by the federal government, today we are beginning to see the rise of religious based opposition movements that use religion to oppose or support the federal government's actions. Some of these movements are peaceful and some are potentially militant. Unlike the Muslim movements many of these new Christian based movements contain some of the best and brightest minds produced by our society. These minds also contain knowledge of technology, the law and governmental capabilities that far exceeds that of any Muslim based Islamic Fascist group. As a group many of these new religious based organizations support religious freedoms, right to privacy, gay rights, and the right of a woman to control her reproductive system. They have risen largely as a result of, and in opposition, to the rise of the Christian Fundamentalist movement in the United States. Merging their efforts with those of the gay and lesbian rights activists, environmental movements, stem cell research proponents and Internet activists they are beginning to emerge as a significant force. That they can influence events in a carefully structured way is evidenced in part by the recent loss of a senator in the Connecticut Democratic primary. As their ideology and religious views emerge it will be interesting to see how this decentralized grouping manifests itself in the political arena. What other capabilities they have are less clear and remain a source of concern. With all such groups actions that they perceive as being directed against them by the federal government could prompt retaliation. To date this retaliation seems to have taken the form of leaks to the media, and efforts to paint the actions of Bush administration in the most negative light possible. In an era when a United States administration has sought to expand the power of the executive branch outside the system of checks and balances embodied in our constitution, what we have and are now seeing is the rise of an opposition movement that because of limits on what it can do legally and politically has turned to a coordinated effort to damage the current administration by leaking of information relating to abuse of power and lack of sound judgment on matters relating to the War in Iraq, the Hurricane in the Gulf and a number of other matters. This effort is the result of a highly sophisticated opposition movement that remains behind the scenes and uses a decentralized religious based network to conduct its operations. Much like Bush, the GOP and its supporters use a network to raise funds get out the message this new affiliation of religious based opposition members uses its network to demonstrate its ability to strike back at the federal government for what it views as threats to the freedoms enshrined in our constitution. As the war against Islamic Fascists continues we should be cognizant of the groups that are beginning to emerge within the background of our society in response to what is viewed as to threats to our freedoms. Such things have happened in the past in reaction to the McCarthy hearings, the Scopes Monkey trial and a number of other such events in our history such as the Great Civil rights movement. In school we learn about these events that shaped our societal worldview but fail to recognize the networks of supporters that stood behind the people involved in those events and the fact that those networks were made of some of the best and brightest minds our society ever produced. For the most part they operated from behind the scenes and used the leaders that were involved in those events as spokespeople. It is also well to remember that the efforts acomplishment of those groups and spokespeople have to date far exceeded any achieved by the Islamic Fascists. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Cindy Sheehan hospitalized after hunger strike http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/12/sheehan.hospital.ap/index.html | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Conservative group sets sights on Chafee http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060812/ap_on_el_se/republican_infighting | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Regrettably, Anon, it is war. I think WW III actually started in 1983 with the Beirut, US Embassy bombings, when Reagan pulled out the Marines. This was the Jihad opposition's first real strike against us, and it worked, so they felt emboldened. Through the '90s we saw more strikes, practice runs against US and Western interests around the world, as al-Qaeda flexed their muscles in testing our response. Other than Desert Storm, 1991, we had little in response, and that was in direct response to Iraq's invasion of a sovereign state, Kuwait. The West finally woke up on 911 to realize we were at war, but still not sure what we were fighting against, so knocking off al-Qaeda and Taliban were first responses from our side. But we still did not really understand the nature of this Jihadic war against us, so flailed about with an attack on Saddam's evil little dictatorship, though WMDs were not discovered (some were but were classified info until the present) and Saddam's support for Jihad was merely opportunistic. Now with Iraq falling into Iran's plans, with their world Jihad ambitions, we may in retrospect see how the latter Iraqi war was mishandled. We should have deposed Saddam and left them to sort it out themselves, in my opinion, rather than trying to build a western styled democracy. It now seems very unlikely to succeed, 3 1/2 years later, so the Shiite-Sunni wars will have to sort it out for them the hard way, with maybe a million deaths before it is over. The war against Jihad is now front and center in southern Lebanon, with Israeli taking the initiative after Hezbollah went onto their sovereign soil to capture and kill soldiers, an act of war. But with the new UN Resolution 1701, this war will be put on hold, so Israel's victory of Hellbollah will be greeted by 'Arab street' as Jihad victory, sic. In the end, this is the world we are now beginning to understand, that WW III had already been in progress for two decades. It's now history. We are at war. What concerns us here in the USA as regards our civilian liberties, which are constrained by the war, is that groups within our borders with good intentions, those who wish to protect our human rights to live as free men and women, including gay men and women (punished in Sharia lands by public stoning), is that we fear the government is overstepping its rights in trying to protect our freedoms. This is the delicate balance of power we enjoy in peace, but which the enemy will try to exploit to their advantage in times of war. They want us to be infighting against each other in protection of our freedoms, those that the enemy hates and would take away. So it requires much greater vigilence and awareness of what are our reponses to this Jihadic threat to our safety and liberties. The question is now how do we fight this war by giving the government enough leeway in combatting those who would kill us, through terrorism at first, but military actions later (in the way they helped bring down the Soviet Union through the Afghani war, for which they take full credit of the Soviet fall, which is another example of their ignorance of what that was all about); without sacrificing our cultural values of freedom, and without falling into the legal trap of another McCarthy era politics. We cannot afford to give up our hard fought freedoms, which should instead be hardened against Jihad war incursions, such as their manipulating our public opinion, but should also not tie up our government in technical legalities when it comes to safeguarding our freedoms. There rests the dilema, as you pointed out, and we must bring our best minds forward without intimidation from either the Jihadists, nor from neocons within the government, to squarely face together this growing threat of world Jihad. In war, regardless of our partisan sentiments, we must pull together. So our fight against 'Islamic-Fascists' is a new kind of war, one that had caught us by surprise, but also one that had been going on for decades for us unwittingly, while it was fought throughout the world for centuries, like about 14 of them. With the fall of the Ottoman Empire, everything got put on hold for the past century, but now it is resuming in force. The only casualties during this lull was from Christians and other minority religious groups living within the lands of the Ummah or quasi-Caliphate of the lands conquered by Arab Jihadists over the centuries. Imagine how all those people living in North Africa, the whole Middle East including Palestine, parts of Eastern Europe and Balkans (including Cyprus), and Central Asia, and India down to Indonesia, felt as minority religions within Muslim domination? They suffered. Their churches or temples attacked, mass deportations and intimidation, and mass murder. This is the fate awaiting us in the West if we do nothing against world Jihad. Because there had been such a long lull in the fighting we forgot about it, and because now communications and transportation is so much more advanced than it was 100 years ago, we are suddenly cast into the forefront of what had been simmering below the surface all along. Now with large migrations of Muslims into the West, sometimes by the West's naive invitation, we are once again confronted with the age old threat, but much magnified. (How ironic they wish to use our cell phones to bring down our jetliners, both of which we invented.) If we do not respond to it with intellect and force, we then face the same fate suffered by the conquered peoples within the Muslim lands, either forced conversion, dhimmitude with a special religious tax imposed, or death. Public stonings, amputations, burkhas for women, abuse of women by men and polygamy, repressive rules on every aspect of our lives, including what we may or may not enjoy in life as free human beings, would become our future. Our culture, the arts, our economic and scientific success, our political liberties, would all be erased. In effect, we'd be cast back into a stone-age mentality, or at best a post biblical, pre-Renaissance mentality where all the advances of western civilization based upon human freedoms of thought or actions, and human equality, would be crushed. Women would once again be suppressed, so all gains of the past century in women's rights would disappear. There is no appeasing this enemy, because in his primeval mindset, he hates our freedoms, is threatened by them, and will feel peace (in his 'religion of peace') only when all of us had been made slaves. What kind of 'peace' is it for slaves, when their freedoms had been taken away? Yet, this is the peace envisioned by the enemy, when we all bow down together universally five times daily to the loud calls to prayer (for their pagan moon-god 'allah')*, and then the whole world would be at 'peace' within the quietude of well behaved slaves. I know this sounds to us so ludicrous that we think one must be braindead to accept such conditions. But the enemy is that, and they made all the peoples they conquered that, so why would he not push his ambitions to make us that as well? This is a problem, one which we must face and conquer. So we must not succumb to our natural instincts to fight amongst ourselves over issues, such as "religious freedoms, right to privacy, gay rights, and the right of a woman to control her reproductive system", but rather must establish clear guidelines to what our freedoms in society represent. Freedom of thought, freedom over our bodies, freedom of sexual orientation, freedom of belief; all these must be put aside as issues (in my opinion they shouldn't even be issues, anymore than teaching evolution in schools), because fighting over these inherently innate freedoms interfere with the war into which we had been suddenly cast. There should be no question these freedoms are to exist. Freedom to coerce, on the other hand, must not be allowed anywhere, stopped completely, so those who would stop us in our beliefs, and our civil liberties, who would even kill us, must be stopped. Regrettably this may even put constraints on some parts of society, such as the breeding grounds of hate for our freedoms. Freedom of religion should not extend to those whose 'religion' is a politicized-anti-freedom, and a breeding ground for their evil teachers teaching hatred of our culture and way of life. We must constrain immigration, especially from lands where such freedoms do not exist and are hated. We cannot afford a fifth-column undermining us within our borders, both in Europe as well as the Americas, by those who wish us ill in their world conquest Jihad. There is no leisure here; we have to fight; but not against each other. That must be made very clear at all levels of government, of partisanship, of media, and of academia; we cannot afford to show any weakness before the Jihad enemy, because this is what they lie in wait for. Coming from a tradition of camel caravan raiders, they know this method well, and so will lie in wait patiently until they find the weakness they can exploit. We cannot allow them to find any from us, but must face them as a united front. Where will it end? When they are feeling so subdued from without and within that they not only call off Jihad but condemn it for all time. How long will it take for such a victory? Decades, if not centuries. Should we just give up, since it seems so hopeless, and join them? Convert now to spare ourselves and children's and grandchildren's the agony of war? Each one of us has to find the strength in his or her heart to say "NO! NEVER!" If you do not believe this, observe what happened to all those conquered lands of the world who did not resist enough. There is your future, choose wisely. Ivan *(See archeological evidence, 'Allah' was a pagan moon god: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm )
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| Anonymous |
In all wars there exists a balance that must be struck between civil liberties and National Security. The issue in this war is not so much as the need for additional tools to combat the spread Islamic Fascists, but rather approach taken by those in charge to obtaining and using those tools. Rather than working within the framework of the existing system and modifying it to meet current needs the present administration has engaged in a rejection of constitutional limits and engaged in a defacto expansion of presidential powers. It is this issue that has caused an opposition to the current administration to arrise. In sum it is a matter of credability. All parties with few exceptions in this nation agree that we need to focus on fighting the Islamic Fascists, who would kill their own daughters for wedding out of the faith, stoning the mentally ill to death for being witches, and killing those that violate the precepts of their religion. This is in addition to them waging a war against our society and culture. In short we agree on the key points but disagree on our opinion of the current administration, which through redistricting, having the support of an organized base that shares a common worldview as well as control of congress and the White House feels that it can dictate policy to the United States and the rest of the world. This arrogence has played into the hands of the Islamic Facists and greatly damaged the power and influence of the Untied States around the globe. In reaction to the Neocons that have wrested control of the government and purged it to a large degree of dissenting opionions a Neoliberal opposition movement has begun to emerge. This movement also feels that we need to focus on the war against Islamic Facists but feels that we should take another more concensus and legalistic approach to combating this foe. As we movee into the midterm elections the forces of the Neoliberal and Neocon organizations are engaged in a battle for control of congress. It will be intersting to see what the outcome of this battle will be. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
There will always be issues, and our democratic process is one way for these issues to be resolved, by the people we put in office to rule. The constitutionality of this rule must not be challenged, and our personal civil liberties must be preserved. Or else, why bother fighting, if we are so ready to surrender those liberties? But by the same token, we must not extend those liberties and rights to those who act as criminal elements against us, because of their cult-like belief, and must draw the line defining who is protected in their liberties, and who is working to undo that protection. If the enemy has found ways to weasle into our system of governance to such an extent that they can subvert our laws, using them against us in protecting their 'liberties', then our world's safety and liberties are jeapordized. What the current administration has done, with its Homeland Security approach, is tighten surveillance, better intelligence maybe, some troops, and that's about all. Some take comfort in this, while others feel their personal liberties invaded. They have not addressed, however, whether from Neoconservative or Neoliberal views, how do we tackle an enemy of our freedoms living with us. Do we have different laws for them? Not acceptable. Do we find equal parity for their politicized religion same as we have for our personal religions? They are different, since our personalized religion, what we believe in our hearts, is not something we wish to push on others; in their world, their beliefs says you must push this on others. What a difference in the term 'religion' these two worlds bring. Are we as a nation arrogant, in the eyes of the world, because we stick to our beliefs and are willing to fight for them? Should we dillute those beliefs to pacify our critics? Should we retain our right to our beliefs, without imposing them on others? Is this an equal right to be offered to those who do want to impose their religion on others? Maybe 'religion' is a misnomer then, and we have to make a distinction between what is a personalized religion, what we enjoy as free people with the freedom to believe as we will, and that belief-system that imposes itself on others, by force. This is a question beyond partisanship, beyond elected officials democratically chosen for office, but one of fundamental rights, even constitutional rights. How we define this distinction between what is religion and what is more cult-like belief-system, will doubtless color how we fight this new threat to our liberties. Should we hold a referendum, put it before the people, as to whether the same laws that apply to our freedom of belief also applies to those who want to forcibly convert our belief to their system of belief, even by using violence and mass murder? If you think of the enemy's efforts against our social values as being inherently crimininal, even to kill us, and then define that effort as a crimininal activity, you may be forced to rewrite our laws. We have no laws, for example, against cannibalism, since this was never an issue to be faced; we universally think cannibalims is wrong. But nor do we have laws on the seperation of church and cult, which in the past had never been an issue. So this is something new we must face, in this war. We probably need to address this new social condition with new laws, laws that can safeguard us against this cult aggression, same as there are laws to protect us against fraud or other criminal activities. A constitutional ammendment may be called for to address a most fundamental issue here. I am sure Jefferson would have approved we do this. Personally, I have no partisan affiliations. I don't care which party wins, nor what their inherent political philosophy is. What I care about are results, who protects our freedoms while protecting our national interests, without sacrificing our social values to appease the enemy. For me, the issues are on principle, not politics. If either party surrenders our national interests, whether through failed international policies, or through failed internal politices, where our freedoms and protection from the enemy are compromised, they should be called on it. It does not matter who is in office, either at the presidential level or congressional. I also suspect that given the nature of our laws, that they were never designed to meet this aggressive cult threat before, that our system of government is fighting a battle with one hand tied behind their back, in terms of what the judiciary allows them to do. We need new laws to define how to combat not only criminal terrorism, which we now sort of have, but also how to combat criminal teachers of hate and religious-cult conquest. Again, this is something new for us. But if we are to avoid the fate of all those nations that had fallen to this threat over the centuries, and do it in a manner that does not violate our freedoms and beliefs, such as the sanctity of the individual, our 'innocent until proven guilty', then we must review and address it at the judicial level as well. Partisan politics is secondary, by contrast. Should we be very concerned that Europeans and others don't like Americans? Not too much. This is not a game of where the nice guys win. War is tough, the strong win. We are better off showing a strong will and resolve in this combat than worrying about how pretty we look to the world. Nor should our mess in Iraq sway us in policy; if we failed then move out, but better learn from your mistakes. Don't move into the enemy's field of battle again, unless you plan to kill them completely. The free world will in the end rally round once they understand the seriousness of this threat. We are drawing fire first, because the enemy most despises our freedoms, but Europe is getting it too, as Madrid and London, or Paris riots showed. The problem with Europe is that it is still asleep as to the severity of the threat, and want to continue as if nothing was wrong. This in itself makes them chafe at our resolve to fight, because they are not willing to. As it gets worse, watch them change their tune. In the end, they will be glad we held tight. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
A constitutional ammendment may be called for to address a most fundamental issue here. Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 07:41 pm: Ivan Some Muslims claim their religion is one of peace. Those Muslims say that outside a small region called ‘Arabian Peninsula’ all religions should coexist. Naturally these Muslims are against other Muslims demanding the right to ‘Global Conquest.’ The Muslim who claims the right to ‘Global Conquest’ is a fascist. We need to fight the fascists and not the peace loving Muslims. Every Muslim living here should be (not might be but should be) asked to declare his / her stance on ‘Global Conquest.’ Those who declare that they believe in ‘Global Conquest’ must be sent to a land that would accept them. Until they find a land to emigrate, they should be interned with minimal expense to our society. Those who declare that their religion, Is**m, is against the ‘Global Conquest’ could be allowed to live in peace. If those who are allowed to live in peace commit any act against the freedom of the people such an act is punishable by civil or criminal laws as the case may be. Would the above be considered as a possible Amendment to the Constitution? I believe such an Amendment is not against the First Amendment. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2306556&page=1 === Aug 12, 2006 Malaysia is expecting a court ruling any day now that could shake society to its foundations: does a Muslim have the right to convert to another faith? === Our answer: Yes, outside the Arabian Peninsula. If a Muslim living inside the Arabian Peninsula desires to leave Is**m, he / she moves out of the Arabian Peninsula and lives as a non-Muslim. God does not need slaves: He is happy with free believers. I have answered the question in the hope that it could reach the parties in Malaysia and guide them to the correct perspective on Is**m. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
"Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. You are absolutely right, Mohideen, in your assessment, that the 'test' of whether a Muslim is peaceful, and believing in his religion of peace, is whether or not he/she supports 'Global Conquest' fascism. It had been maintained in these discussions that it is not the religion that is at fault, but Jihad for conquest, with forced conversion, forced-jizya tax, and coercions against free human beings in violation of their rights, that are intolerable. Jihad for self-defense is different from Jihad for conquest. This distinction must always be clear in any future legislation to restrain those who want to do us, or others, violence and harm. Muslims should be free to believe in their religion as any other group, and if the religion has aspects that may be objectionable (hate the infidels stuff) that is their internal affair. But if these objectionable aspects become externalized (death to infidels) then it becomes a social issue that must be addressed. As a peace loving Muslim, you command the same respect as do all religions, but as a 'conquest driven suicide bomber antagonistic' religion, though for must of us this is a perversion of Isl*m, then this is no longer worthy of respect, and becomes condemnable. So whatever future legislation, or amendment to our constitution is instituted, it must make that distinction clear, that there are peace loving Muslims whose religion in and of itself is no threat to society. If there are internalized violations of our human rights (forced female circumcision, death for 'apostasy', so called 'honor' killings, stoning of homosexuals, etc.) these must be regulated by our social laws. This is what distinguishes us as a civilized society from a bunch of club (or sword) wielding savages, that we have laws to protect the individual, and then enforce these laws. If any members of any religion cannot live peacefully within these laws, then indeed there is no other recourse than to imprison them, or ship them out. In extreme cases, because the US still has the death penalty, they would be executed if guilty of heinous crimes. The proposal of an anti "fascist-religion" amendment to our US Constitution must be clear to exonerate the peaceful believers as distinct from condemning the 'fascist criminals' of that religion, those who promote hate and global conquest. This should be universal, in that it applies to all religions, though at the moment only one religion seems to produce members who are guilty of such crimes: the jihadists. So for now, at least in this time and age, the law must address Jihad as it is being waged against civilized society. The threat at the moment is Isl*mic Jihad, but this threat could come from any deviant interpretation of any belief-system, from voodoo to Buddhism, or satanism to Judeo-Christianity, or for any hate-cult, which means the amendment to our constitution must be durable enough to encompass any possible future evil developments that force religion into fascism and coercions. A hate-cult may not be afforded the same protection under the First Amendment as for legitimate religions. I hope the founding fathers of our great nation's Constitution would have approved, knowing what we now know, something they would have written in if they knew then. Peaceful members of any faith would not be addressed, only those who want to do us harm. Freedom of belief, or freedom of thought, does not mean freedom to hate and harm. We may do what we wish with each other by legal agreement, because that is what defines freedom; but we cannot allow anyone to coerce another against his/her agreement if innocent of coercions, if we are a civilized society. This must be enshrined in our constitutional law. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Good analysis of the Lebanon problem. Until there is "unconditional surrender" of militant Jihad led by Iran and other Muslim nations, there is no victory against the evils of Islamic-terror against the free world. http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=359 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
How Amendment 1 should be worded: Amendment I: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances - when these are non -coercive to others." Adding those words "when these are non-coercive to others" brings the spirit of the Founding Fathers of our US Constitution back into the text, without changing it, while the text addresses the changes taking place in our modern times. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Adding those words "when these are non-coercive to others" brings the spirit of the Founding Fathers … Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 07:25 am: Ivan I try to recount one of the fables of “Thenali Raman” popular in India. A corrupt official was to be punished. So the king divested him of all responsibility but out of pity posted him on the sea shore and asked to count the number of waves by the hour. When a ship would cross the point where this person was counting the waves he would threaten the captain of the ship to report ‘interruption of government operation of counting the waves’ unless the captain rewards him in secret. The corrupt official managed to collect bribe even in that useless job of counting the number of waves in the ocean. Amendment 1 is concerned with many aspects. I am afraid that if not this administration a future administration might claim that ‘peaceful assembly’ is coercion to the travelers and might abridge such important activities. How about concentrating on religion alone? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Until there is "unconditional surrender" of militant Jihad led by Iran and other Muslim nations, there is no victory against the evils of Islamic-terror against the free world. Posted on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 10:32 pm: Anonymous Quoting from http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=359 we get: === In the last world war, America, Britain, and other allied nations expended years and thousands of lives to win against the dictatorships of Germany and Japan. In the end, we demanded and got "unconditional surrender." That is what we are going to need to do in the Middle East to free ourselves from the threat of the Islamic Jihad. === One small but crucial difference is overlooked. In WWII all the combatants loved and valued life. Thus the dropping of the atom bombs stopped the war. Muslim fundamentalists do not seem to value life. Thus they are not expected to surrender. A better approach would be education so that the fundamentalists get starved of followers and thus there is peace. Education might taper off the militant Jihad. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
At this juncture I think it would be appropriate to discuss the re-organization of Iraq into ethnically seperate Federal Divisions. In reality the country has already divided along these lines with the United States backing the secular Kurd regions; the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia backing the Sunni's in the Sunni region and Iran backing the Shia in the rest of the country. With division of the country and its' capital comes the opportunity for the country to reach a peaceful settlement. With each region being given a share of the country's oil wealth and portion of the national government's jobs. Private sector jobs would be open to all and backed by investments from the supporters of the various federal regions. For example the Suadi's could invest in corporation's headed by Sunni Muslims, the U.S. Kurds and Iran the Shia. While I expect that each group would like to attract western investment over that of Iran, given the poor state of the Iranian economy, I feel Iran would make a major effort to expand influence in the Shia areas of the country via economic means following a cease fire and partition of the country under ethnic lines into autonomous federal regions. Each of these regions would have their own national guard, like the United States, but also be responsible for providng forces into an Federal active duty national army that is under control of the Federal Government. Just some thoughts on the future of Iraq given the current level of discord between the various factions. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Along the lines I discussed above there is a precident for such actions, Berlin following WWII, and the divison of Germany which following the Cold War was allowed to reunify. Korea, Tiawan, are also examples where partition has worked. India, Bangladesh and Pakistan. All of these partions came about due to societal pressures. Why not control the forces and shape Iraq into a Federal version of a Nation State? Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Not in a secular based legal system of government, no deal. Religion is a personal belief-system that cannot be politicized. If it is politicized to exert coercive pressure on anyone, with the right to punish any who disobey it, then it is taken out of the 'religion' context and now cast into the 'political' context. Any political organization that harms our social well being is then to be called out for their criminal activities of hate. This was the genius of our founding fathers of the US Constitution, that they separated 'church and state'; now we must separate 'church and hate-cult'. "Peaceful assembly" means you do not engage in destructive or punitive activities. I know you keep trying to insinuate your Sharia into American or Western democratic law, but this 'transparency' will not work. Sorry, but religion cannot be mixed with politics without become automatically 'coercive' as a second body of law with our constitutional laws. We cannot have it this way. There is only one law of the land, and both religious and non-religious people must be subject to it equally. You do not go around making up your own social laws to suit your religious beliefs. The First Amendment safeguards your right to believe as you wish, but not to dictate to others how they are to believe, by definition of what 'freedom of religion' means. But if your religious belief-system is to hurt others who disagree with you, that is coercive, it cannot be allowed by any laws anywhere. BTW, in your anecdotal story "The corrupt official managed to collect bribe even in that useless job of counting the number of waves in the ocean." you must understand that the corrupt official is still coercive in his collecting bribes, so the king was not as wise as he is made to appear in the story. In mine above, I am very clear as to what the word "coercion" means. I wrote: "We may do what we wish with each other by legal agreement, because that is what defines freedom; but we cannot allow anyone to coerce another against his/her agreement if innocent of coercions, if we are a civilized society." Coercion is tightly defined, for civilized society (unlike barbaric societies where coercion is more the rule than exception), and its laws must have this imbedded in their principles of justice. i.e., constitutional laws. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
B e c a r e f u l what you wish for, or the universe has a way of granting it to you. If they value death so much that they do not care if they are annihilated, then perhaps their wish will be granted. In war, sympathies are in short supply. Anyway, how primitive to be so focussed on death. The ancient Egyptians had a similar fascination, but they didn't make a killing cult out of it, just went around building pyramids. Why are Muslims so "death death" oriented? Does their god really hate life so much? Why don't you switch your death energy towards building pyramids instead? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Ed, in yours: The partition of Korea is still an open question. The South did very well, while the North languished and remained a belligerent nation. Pakistan and Bengladesh split off after the partition was unsuccesful for them. Taiwan lives under a constant threat from mainland China. So, I don't know if partitioning Iraq will not create a neverending conflict or not. I suspect the separate federations within Iraq might work, but that would mean to disarm all factions. There's the crux of the problem. How do you do that? My solution to the secterian violence between Sunnis and Shiias in Iraq is to cut off funding from Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran, rather than encouraging it. No more guns and bombs for the factions, easier said then done. Realisticallty, unless the Iraqis pull together and stop their immams from spreading hate and killing, that country is beyond hope. Civil war then becomes their future, Iran taking the reigns of power, and our future war against Iran, which I believe will happen, becomes complicated; and Iraqis go into a death dive. Too bad, but that's how they're shaping their future with this secterian violence, my sincere condolences. The Kurds once again are left out, but this may serve them better, as they remain the only viable potential state within that cauldron of hatreds and suicide killings. Get the immams or else... Only other option is to make Kurdistan a separate state, where we keep bases for the future war. My regrets, but I have no heart for congenital killers, except to let them destroy themselves. Millions of lives lost to their death cult, if that's what they're after. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Anyway, how primitive to be so focussed on death. Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 06:09 pm: Ivan May be I did not communicate very effectively. I value education and change-of-heart more than fighting and eradicating a wrong group. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-14-xrays-airports_x.htm?POE=NEWI SVA === Updated 8/14/2006 7:32 PM ET X-ray machines that screen airline passengers' shoes cannot detect explosives, according to a Homeland Security Department report on aviation screening. … In its April 2005 report, "Systems Engineering Study of Civil Aviation Security — Phase I," the Homeland Security Department concluded that images on X-ray machines don't provide the information necessary to detect explosives. The Homeland Security report recommends that explosives trace detection, or ETD, be used on the shoes and hands of passengers when the screeners determine they must be checked more thoroughly. === Whom are the screeners going to feel – they have no clue from the X-ray machine – need to be checked thoroughly: those who dress inappropriately. Do we expect a suicide bomber to dress inappropriately? The procedure could be fooled by a persistent criminal and just causes avoidable inconvenience to the public. We suggest routine screening of every shoe as the person walks through the metal detector by augmenting the system with explosive detectors as described below: http://www.controlscreening.com/trace.html === The EVD® 3500 is the world's first and most recognized portable explosives trace detector that uses Luminol Chemiluminescence (Chemilumina). It is the only portable device capable of detecting the presence of all the threat explsives including ICAO taggants, military plastics and TATP. It also does not use any external carrier gas or radioactive source (unlike others). It offers extremely fast and stable detection with very high selectivity for explosives. (The potential beneficiaries are): Police and Bomb Squads, Embassies, Military Defense, Border Crossings, Courts of Law, Airports, Nuclear Facilities, Transportation Terminals, Government Buildings, Seaports and Containerships === http://www.controlscreening.com/brochures/E3500.pdf === RS-232 serial output port for remote control and monitoring. === We suggest that every metal screening stand be fixed with two EVD 3500s one for each leg possibly at a height of 3” above the ground to be close to the footwear. The RS-232 port is used to give display to the TSA officer checking for metals by listening for the ‘beep’ so that the presence of explosives is indicated on the display. Then such passengers are separated for further detailed screening. This suggestion incidentally does not require every one to remove the shoes and send them through the X-ray machine which anyway is useless in detecting explosives. I am just being curious as to the following: http://www.controlscreening.com/trace.html === GSA pricing is available for the complete line of equipments engineered and manufactured by Control Screening LLC and its subsidiary, Scintrex Trace Detection. See GSA schedule number GS-07F-9010D effective for 8/1/2001 - 7/31/2006 for details. === Notice the dates: 8/1/2001 just weeks before 9/11 and 7/31/2006 again just weeks before the current scare. Coincidence??? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Follow the pack of http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=364 and package your brain in a can. Never having to say you're sorry for your jihad crimes is power in the hands of simplo-tins. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
SO WHO WON THE WAR IN LEBANON? This last 34 day war between Lebanon's Hezbollah and Israel has both sides claiming victory. Iran and Syria both praise Hezbollah, as if they won. Iranian Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says Hezbollah "has hoisted the banner of victory", and "Israel was defeated." In Damascus, Basha Assad says Israeli and US plans for the Middle East were turned into an illuision, that Hezbollah came out on top. Israel claims it won, and President George Bush likewise declared victor for Israel, saying Hezbollah guerrilas suffered defeat. Are they all looking at the same war, and all sides declared victory? First of all, there was no 'victory' as such, but a draw since the war ended in a 'cease fire', neither side surrendered to the other. There were however hard and soft, or tangible and intangible 'victories' which can be assessed. The jury may still be out, the conflict not really resolved. But there were winners and losers here. On the tangible side we can list the following: 1. Casualties; Israelis lost over 150 deaths, about two thirds of which were military personnel. Hezbollah lost over 1000 deaths, most claimed to be civilian deaths, so number of military casualties are unsure; possible most of male 'civilian' deaths were actually military deaths, they never admit to it. Hezbollah fighters fought dressed as civilians and using their women and children as human shields, firing from populated positions, a horror. I would score this grim win in favor of Israel. On the intangible, more difficult to assess, I think we can look at the following: 5. Hearts and Minds in Arab world: In the pan-Arab world, Hezbollah was elevated to a higher status by fighting against Israel, though they started this war. Israel was hated before and is hated even more now, so not much changed from that perspective in the Muslim world. There is absolutely no sympathy from Arabs on Israel, perhaps not even those Arabs who reside in Israel, so the war for minds and hearts did not change, though I would say that for Muslims Hezbollah's war this was a clear victory. So who won? From a factual point of view, the victory is clear. But from a religious sentiment point of view, much of the pan-Arab world will have their own opinion of 'victory' which conflicts with the factual. I have my opinions on this war. The reader will have to make their own. Maybe there was an Israeli real victory against Hezbollah, though they failed to get back their captured soldiers, and the enemy did not disarm. Because there was no surrender by either side, UN brokered peace treaties aside, it is far from over. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
August 22nd, what's that all about? I heard on the radio a commentator talk about this date, only one week away, as an ominous 'end of the world final days' type date where something terrible will happen, maybe a nuclear bomb on Israel. He referred to Iran's Mahmoud as "Ahmedwhackjob" and his belief in the 12th Imam coming out of hiding, on the anniversary date of when Mohammed rose into the sky on his winged horse to fly to the "farthest mosque" in Jerusalem, then ascended to heaven and returned with his virgins, or something like that. I think the date is fiction, and of no real consequence, even to "whetjob" though he may use it to give his "final answer" on the UN's request for his stopping uranium enrichment programs, against the non-proliferation treaty, of which Iran is a signatory. However, if there was to be some big event on that date, my guess, is this is the date he hopes to detonate an Iranian held (not necessarily manufactured) nuclear device, probably in some vast wastes of Tajikistan. But just incase I'm wrong, if I were Israel, and all nations near enough to Iran, I'd have that area monitored carefully and those Minuteman missiles at the ready to knock the thing off its gantry. Just incase "whackjob" has some ideas in that evil little brain behind those evil little eyes of his. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
This is a silly question, Mohideen, unless you have some alternative reason for asking it. Jihad terrorism had been with us already for years before 911. Our engineers and scientists were already working on ways to stop it, or detect its explosive agents. On the FaithFreedom.org page today (which I found after reading Anon's post above) there is an interesting article about aviation history. It says something to the effect that whereas men and women of the West developed flying and air travel for the masses, the only contribution of Muslims to aviation was blowing up airplanes. Kind of sad, don't you think? Where are the great minds of your world to help mankind, instead of making it sick and die? Come on, get real. For God's sake stop chasing conspiracy theories, they make you look stupid. You are an educated and intelligent man, you can be better than that. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
For God's sake stop chasing conspiracy theories, they make you look stupid. Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:11 pm: Ivan Asking a question is not the same as answering it. I simply found a relationship between different events and am enquiring whether there is any significance? What is wrong with that? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
PS to my post above: Europe is waking up to the "intolerant and violent version" of what is supposed to be a religion of peace living within their midst. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4796543.stm | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Naive |
Even if the U.S. and the West have an imperialistic agenda, it would probably still end up creating a better quality of life for those who are so vehemently opposing it. In fact it is the zealous opposition to this perceived agenda that is causing the villification (of Muslims) that justifies this agenda in the eyes of U.S. citizens (the only ones who could truly stop the agenda). A sad catch 22 for good, peace loving Muslims around the world. On the otherhand, the U.S government should learn to mind its own business at home. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
For God's sake stop chasing conspiracy theories, … Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:11 pm: Ivan It looks like even if I don’t chase them the theories seem to. I received the following URL in the mail today! http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/combover.htm === "Associated Press reports that the dastardly new terror plot is a re-hash of Operation Bojinka - a 1995 plot to blow up 10 Western airliners simultaneously. What they don't report is that its ringleader - Ramzi Youssef - was protected by the US government in 1992. … === | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
About "Ramzi Youssef". The US government was not always careful whom it supported in its clandestine operations during the Cold War, and some of those errors are now coming home to roost. Here are some other sites you might enjoy: http://www.intelmessages.org/Hack/ZKZ_Osama_and_Saddam_002.html http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress04/doran061604.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef But be critical of what you read. There probably was some support by US secret service operatives for Bin Laden's Al Qaeda and his operatives during the Afghan war with the Soviets, a continuation of an old "Grand Game" dating back to the British Raj days. But now that same connection may be coming back to haunt us, sort of like having made a deal with the devil, you are never again clean of it. As to the idea that US government set up the 911 strike is utterly absurd, unsubstantiated, especially since Al Qaeda's Bin Laden took credit for it. He said "be patient" in that there was more to follow. In retrospect, there was more to follow, more bombings against civilians in Madrid and London, Bali, Beslan, Mumbai, Phillipines, Turkey, etc. In the link you gave above, I'd be more critical of what was being said, using reason, or the mind God gave us, than believing it, though it is entertaining. I no longer comb over, and am contemplating a complete hair makeover, something close to a buzz cut. The bad guys are not us, nor our government, but those who would kill us for their jihadic ambitions of world conquest. We must be very clear eyed about this, and stop them by whatever means it takes. The link you referenced above is funny, but not to be taken seriously, unless you want to be a loony like that writer. Be critical of what you read, use the mind God gave you. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The link you referenced above is funny, but not to be taken seriously, unless you want to be a loony like that writer. Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 07:58 pm: Ivan That writer is a practicing attorney in USA. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The bad guys are not us, nor our government, but those who would kill us for their jihadic ambitions of world conquest. We must be very clear eyed about this, and stop them by whatever means it takes. Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 07:58 pm: Ivan When people play games of patsies and their handlers in the fog of propaganda it is very difficult to exonerate our administration. True the global conquest must be stopped. To my understanding the global conquest is pursued by at least two groups: the Illuminati and the Jihadists. Both the groups need to be defeated. Defeating one group and leaving the other still results in worldwide tyranny. With regard to those seeking global conquest through Jihad, violence against them helps them; educating the vulnerable youth and starving the violent Jihad movement of volunteers might succeed. Without proper universal education for every jihadist that gets killed more than one gullible youngster joins them. Thus I do not expect to overcome the global conquest by killing the jihadists. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
http://www.dispatch.co.za/2006/08/17/Foreign/amusl.html === In a bid to prevent the radicalisation of European Muslims, he proposed measures to train imams, or Muslim prayer leaders, how to incorporate European values of human rights into the principles of Is**m. “We do want a European Is**m,” he said. === The above is not expected to succeed. Do not attempt to reform or change Is**m. Any such attempt would trigger an auto response of protectionism. Counter the propaganda of those Muslims using the religion for ‘Global Conquest’ by showing that they violate Is**m. Such an approach might succeed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Mohideen, European Muslims, in fact all Muslims all over the world must address this message, which is what the world is hearing from your 'religion of peace': "Accept our message of peace, or we'll kill you." If not religious reform, the how about re-interpretation? Europe did it hundreds of years ago. Why is this violent religion of peace taking so long to do the same? How about joining the rest of humanity in pursuit of freedom, happiness, life, good will, progress, success, economic well being, rule of law, constitutional government, civil liberties, sanctity of life, compassion and tolerance, religious freedom? Why is your religion (of peace) so incapable of dealing with these human achievements of the past hundreds of years of Enlightenment? Is it because of your obsession with death, because death is written in advance, because your prophet said so, because you hate the infidels, because martyrdom is better than a good life on Earth? What is it? What keeps this 'religion of peace' so violently dysfunctional, so devoid of real achievements, so pathetically the victim of this or that conspiracy, so much in denial of a real self critique of what is wrong with you? Truth my man, is a real thing. By remaining in denial, or insisting that any attempt at change will trigger a negative response, is to continue denial. There is no gain here, only more slavery to an old outdated and violent ideology that is going the way of dinosaurs. Truth will kill you, unless you reform, or at least do something, like reform you mullahs so they stop teaching hate. Has your 'religion of peace' tried love? That might work. How about reforming your Shariah? Those laws are diametrically opposed to human freedoms, with only one freedom left to those who fall under it: obey, or else suffer punishment. Everything about Sahriah is coercions, and human agreements are meaningless, except the agreement to obey the Shariah. So only one string of agreements, between the man and his god, but nothing between men and men, less than nothing between men and women, and certainly zero agreements between master and slave. How about reforming and updating that, if you can't cope with updating and reforming the Koran and Hadith texts? Maybe it's time to 'secularize' Shariah into the modern world? How about making it less coercive and giving human beings more free latitude to form inter-human agreements? That alone would be a giant step forward, to end slavery to Shariah's medieval-mullah mentality. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
"Accept our message of peace, or we'll kill you." Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 06:59 am: Ivan That is not Is**m. That is an aberration. True Is**m would punish those persons acting as per the above statement. We need to empower true Is**m and not reform it or change it. Shariah is a codification of laws evolved over the past 14 centuries. Many Muslims follow only the Holy Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and they derive the law from the basic sources. It is a lot easier this way than look at all the books and rules without recorded reasons and fight over them. No shariah rule can go against the Holy Quran or an authentic Tradition. For example, some claim that the fact that an unmarried Muslim woman is pregnant is proof of illegal sex and that she must be stoned to death. That is not Is**m. Pregnancy is proof of illegal sex but not of willing illegal sex. There are no ‘four eyewitnesses’ to the act of illegal sex. Knowing that a woman is a weak person, unless and until she confesses to having had illegal sex she cannot be punished. For example if she alleges that she was raped her statement must be accepted and she should not be punished. Even then, the punishment for illegal sex by an unmarried Muslim is 100 lashes and ex-communication for one year and not death. See the following in justification of my statement above that mere pregnancy in the absence of confession is not proof of illegal sex. http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=Hilal+curse&translator=3&sea rch=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Here is a different and fascinating look at the recently concluded war between Hezbollah and Israel resulting in a UN Security Council resolution that Lebanon must disarm Hezbollah. http://www.321gold.com/editorials/willie/willie081706.html === By the way, has anyone thought of a hidden powerful motive for the Lebanese-Israeli War? The BTC oil pipeline opened last May 2006 amidst big corporate hoopla but no US press coverage. The strategic pipeline stretches from Baku Azerbaijan on the Caspian Sea, past Tbilisi in Georgia, across Turkey to its port Ceyhan on the Mediterranean Sea. Within several months, it will serve as the port for one million barrels of oil per day. We have been denied the oil motive in Iraq, in favor of the spread of democracy and the fight against terrorism. They critical BTC pipeline is the most important oil transit route in almost 30 years. It bypasses Russia and Iran. The Ceyhan port is a mere 100 kilometers from the Syrian border. Its security is not assured, in any way shape or form. === Search for ‘Ceyhan Turkey’ in http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&tab=wl&q= and adjust the zoom until the scale shows 100 mi / 200 km. What is the route from Ceyhan to the Suez Canal? It has to pass along the shores of Turkey, Syria, and Lebanon including South Lebanon in which Hezbollah had absolute control, Israel, and the Gaza strip in which Hamas rules. We can expect the countries Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel to play by the book. Can we expect the same of Hamas and Hezbollah? [Conspiracy Theory!] Is there some high command that ordered Israel to initiate both the wars with Hamas in the Gaza strip and Hezbollah in South Lebanon? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Federal judge orders end to wiretap program Rules warrantless domestic surveillance program unconstitutional http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14393611/ Despite all efforts to say it had the power to authorize such taps the current adminstration has been found in violation of our constitutional constraints. While we all agree that terrorism must be fought using all the tools at our disposal, the issue of constitutional constraints became a point of contention between the NEOCONs and NEOLIBERALs in our society. This conflict was fought out in the courts, media and within the government and congress. It was fought using lawsuits, leeks, lies, disinformation and tailored interpretation of intellgience by both sides. With this ruling our system of checks and balances has exerted itself to rule on an issue that cuts to the heart of our democracy. Some will argue that this ruling will hamper our efforts to win the war on terrorism. In my opinion it will help us in the long run by proving to the world that we are a nation of laws and that despite everything, that the protections embodied in our constitution will not be weakened in the name of expediancy. Like one poster said in previous posts, during the Cold War we were prepared to suffer millions of casualties before launching our weapons. During the Civil War hundreds of thousands died to protect and expand the protections and freedoms contained within our constitution. In the current war the judicial branch of our government has said that despite the threat of terrorist attack we will not accept any abrogation of our constitutional rights without due process, even in matters of national security. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/chapman_d/chapman_d_081606.html === Then there was the alleged terror plot in Britain last week. As with numerous other alleged terror plots since the real one of 9/11 they make huge headlines and then once again they are used as an excuse to ramp up security. Trouble is that outside of 9/11, the Madrid train bombings of 3/11 and the London subway attack of 7/7 they have largely consisted of huge headlines, heightened security, disrupted travel and of course they generated a lot of headlines and raised fears but they have delivered little in the way of trials let alone convictions. Indeed many of them have seen the alleged terrorists released or charged with nothing more than minor misdemeanours or minor immigration infractions. To date one of the alleged plotters in Britain has been released already while the remainder languish without charges. Under British law they can be held for 28 days without charge. Columnist Joshua Marshal noted (Toying With Terror Alerts? Time Magazine July 7, 2006) that many of these alleged plots have gone nowhere except to embarrass the authorities that initiated the arrests. Grant you, the actual arrests as we note, generate huge headlines, raised terror alerts and calls for a further security clampdowns but the release of the alleged plotters and the falling apart of the case is buried in the back pages. === The question in our minds: Are these so called averted terror-attacks psyops on the population so that we surrender our freedom bit by bit? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Well Mohideen, if the Lebanese Hezbollah could keep its grubby little hands of Isareli soldiers, on their Israeli soil, then maybe this whole Lebanese war would not have started in the first place. Ever think of that in your 'conspiratorial' mindset? BTC pipeline, built by consortium led by BP, had been known about for 10 years, since it was first started, completed last May, 2005, filled by December its full length, and started shipping to Europe at about 300,000 bbs per day via ships loaded in Ceyhan, Turkey, by June, 2006. It's full capacity is about 1 million bbl/day. What's the big deal? There is a parallel gas pipeline in the works now, same right of way, to be completed by 2007, again shipping natural gas to Europe. My real question on all this is: Why is oil so high? It should be down 'big time!' The rest of the 'conspiracy' is foolishness, for those who know nothing. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Why must we profile them? Why not pro-fly them instead? I agree we must profile. But it does not have to be so. Why not all pro-Muslim flights? Why not spare them the agony of having to fly sitting next to, rubbing elbows with, those 'dirty' infidels on those long trans-Atlantic flights? They think they are the Best people, followers of the One True Faith of Allah, so why torture them on our long flights, or short flights in the US or Europe? It is much better if they fly ONLY on their own carriers, manned by their own 'superior' people, stewardesses donned in the latest fashionable burquas, their (gay) stewards answering every call of their dearest fancies. Use their own Koran reciting pilots, serviced by their own goat herding mechanics, so to spare them the extreme discomfort of having to fly with us infidels, those nasty infidels who invented such evil flying, which they hate so much they want to blow up everyone of their airplanes full of people. Why not have compassion for their needs, and skip profiling altogether, and make them fly only on their superior Best People carriers with their own? Henceforth, all Muslims are forbidden 'infidel' airlines, but may only use their own Best airlines, those airplanes the infidels had already used for twenty years or more, and handed down to them, like we do for poor Third World countries, if they can't manufacture their own. They are prolific multipliers, so to accommodate their great numbers, multiple wives and uncountable brood, take out all the seats before handing over those aged planes. They can outfit them with carpets ('flying carpets'?) and pillows to sit on, turned every which way the plane turns so they always face towards Mecca, and then on the call from the captain they can all bow down in unison in their calls to prayer, to their moon god Allah, the captain adjusting rudder and flaps to keep the plane steady as they sway inside. Serve them dates and coffee instead of pork and wine, so to keep with their traditions of olden days, since pigs did not travel well in the desert heat, and remain purified as they fly over the infidel lands (over them but not of them until conquered), and cast down their evil eyes on those they hate so much. And if they hit an air-pocket and all become airborne, think how happy they will be, for being momentarily closer to their Allah (trampled deaths seems to be common for them). So why not reward them with their Muslim-only flights, to which we infidels are forbidden, being inferiors, from taking unless we first swear allegiance to their moon god and his prophet? There is no purer experience to be closer to Allah then to pro-fly with an ALL MUSLIM plane full of their Best people in the world. And if they still want to blow them up, think how happy they will all be, singly and jointly, when the whole plane load, children included, go to Allah's Paradise to enjoy all the pleasures in store for them with 72 virgins, or Virginians, or raisins, or little boys, or whatever their evil little hearts desire, for eternity/! Now, I ask you in all seriousness, is this not a much better solution for our wayward travelers of the Perfect Faith than to smother them with grief by forcing them to fly with us, with our political correctness, our non-discriminatory policies, even profiling? Profiling is primitive. Exclusivity for the True Faith People is the better way. Let them fly ONLY MUSLIM airlines, and our problems with these miserably unhappy Muslims are solved. Good idea? Reward them for their Bestness. However, whenever one comes into our airspace, we better have our F-16 fighter jets at the ready, because they might still want to blow up something just out of habit, like the Washington Monument, or the Golden Gate. So profiling is out, but exclusive Best People Muslims Only airlines is in. Spare us the grief of having us sit next to those stinky goat eating Muslims, mumbling their stupid payers. As a 'dirty' infidel, this would suit me just fine! Problem: How do you adjust for Ramadan time-zones while flying west? If this simple problem is too problematic for them, they can take boats and camels instead. Fly in peace, salaam etc. etc. ad nauseum ( For more on this see: Robert Spencer, Front Page, Why We MUST Profile: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=23910 ) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
… started shipping to Europe at about 300,000 bbs per day via ships loaded in Ceyhan, Turkey, by June, 2006. Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 03:50 pm: Ivan The route to Europe from Ceyhan, Turkey does not pass by the regions under the control of Hezbollah and Hamas. The route from Ceyhan, Turkey to China indeed has to pass by the areas under the control of Hezbollah and Hamas. That possibly is the reason for disarming Hezbollah now. It is possible that the next development would be a unified government between Fatah and Hamas in Palestine with the demand that Hamas be disarmed as well. The oil is so high just because some war mongers are bent on creating scarcity and exploiting that scarcity to initiate conflicts. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ivan, Just dropped in to see what is going on and I find you again trying to break the conspiratorial mindset of Mohideen. SOME things never change. As I sit here I am counting my blessings on being in the United States and all that I have, despite everything. As I think back on surviving PANAM 103, the Ryhad bombings, nerve agent posioning, and brain damge, with the help of modern science, I am reminded that despite everything I have a lot to be thankful for. Unlike Osama and the leadership of Hezbolla, I was not born to wealth or power. Although at times my family has controled wealth it comes and goes with the generations. With subsequent generations having to relearn what it means to work for a living to put bread on the table and afford medicine for your family. Here in the cool darkness of my study, I look out on quiet streets while the lights are going out in the old mansions of the rich a few doors down the street from me, some of which date back over a 100 years ago. As I sit here in the study of my 110 year old home, I think back to the child I was that grew up on the edges of poverty and malnutrition in one of the richest states in the richest nation on earth. Unlike Osama and the children born to wealth I carry the scars of that time in my body. With legs slightly bowed from almost developing ricketts due to my family not having enough nutricous food for me while I was a child. My shoes wear out quickly because of the slight bow in my legs. When I joined the army they put lifts in my combat boots to compensate for the bow and sent me into combat. When I was diagnosed with the onset of ricketts and borderline malnutrition, those members in the family that had money ensured we never again went without and ensured my parents had help getting jobs that eventually lead them to becoming highly successful members of society. They also wondered why I was so quiet as a child and now understand that I was and am slightly autistic, like Einstien, Newton and a host of others. I feel that I must note that my parents were given an oportunity not a handout and had to make it on their own. The motivating factor behind the assistance that they recieved was due to the love of a parent for their children and the need to provide for them. When my time came I joined the army and fought for the nation that provided for me using all the skills I had in three wars and a host of international crisis. Given the opportunity I rose rapidly, bowed legs and all, to stand before the most powerful men on the face of the earth and tell them in a few words what was going on that they needed to know. I was also given the awsome responsibilty of picking the targets for our nuclear forces during the hieght of the the Cold War. Not bad for a kid that came from the nothing and the edges of malnutrition. When I look at the Palestian children and the children of Lebenon on the edges of malnutrition I see myself as I once was over 40 years ago. If Hezbolla, Hamas and Osama really cared for children they would lay down their arms and walk away from the battle lines. Instead they turn them into suicide bombers and jihadists. I also sit here wondering what those children, with bowed legs from malnutrition will do decades from now if they ever get control of a nuclear weapon. Will they face the truth and see Hezbolla, Hamas and Osama for what they are or will they blame the West for their problems. What a waste. Well enough musing, I wish you well. I am getting ready to go on vacation and when I get back head into the backwoods of New England to look at, discuss, research and argue over ancient stone circles and ancient astronomical alignments. After all the battles I think it a well deserved retirement project. All My Best Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Are you saying, Mohideen, that China started this war in Lebanon to protect their oil interests? That's the problem with conspiracy theories, that they're lies, and once the lie starts it gets more and more convoluted, until it's crazy. You forget a very simple fact, that Hamas started this war, and they got shit for it. Now Iran will have to spend more millions to rebuilt them, and their housing, roads, bridges, it's going to cost them. But Iran has a strong interest in their fighting proxy in Lebanon, so they will spend the money. Ali Sina wrote an excellent analysis of this on FaithFreedom.org. He understands Iran better than me, so you might take a look: http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=369 Yes, Ed, it is an impossible task, not because he's stupid, which I don't think he is, but because he is blind to reason. Something of an occupational hazard for Muslim true believers, I suppose. It is a waste, but no reason to leave stones unturned, even dumb ones. Anyway, it's fun. Visit anytime, and enjoy the lovely woods of New England. I know them well from northern Maine woods and islands, especially Deer Isle, to Cape Ann and Cape Cod, Massachusetts, spent many wonderful years there. I once rowed with a single oar, gondola style, from Essex to Hog Island, a large deserted but richly wooded island, in a winter snow storm, with not another human in sight. I came back half frozen and half dead. But it was great, I loved it! Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Are you saying, Mohideen, that China started this war in Lebanon to protect their oil interests? Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 08:23 pm: Ivan No. In two words the reason for the attempt to disarm Hamas and Hezbollah is: corporate profit. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4716528.stm === China has been on a buying spree, and is prepared to pay top-dollar to get its hands on the oil it needs. === The top dollars means high profit. Further China is a nuclear power with veto in UN Security Council and thus whatever action China takes to satisfy her energy needs cannot be questioned. If China is starved of oil, it is possible that she would turn to ethanol by planting and harvesting sugar cane and converting the waste from the sugar industry to ethanol as done by Brazil. Once the energy hungry nations turn to ethanol, the demand for oil falls and thus the scarcity associated with oil vanishes. Once oil becomes cheap and not sought after, the so called Arab states in Middle East could be bought for a dime a dozen. No war in Middle East and thus the most lucrative industry – the war industry – would languish. Hence it is the war mongers who initiated the fight between Israel and Hamas and Hezbollah. Q.E.D.! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Your religion's definition of 'usury' is meaningless jargon. Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 05:51 pm: Ivan http://www.321gold.com/editorials/saville/saville081506.html === 6. Further to points 4 and 5 above, inflation is never a solution. It is, however, an INEVITABLE consequence of the current monetary system. It is inevitable because the current monetary system is, in effect, a giant Ponzi scheme (a scheme that can only continue as long as there is enough money coming in from new investors to pay previous investors), and once you've created a Ponzi scheme you can't just stop paying people for a while. This is why there won't be an intervening period of deflation between now and when inflation eventually destroys today's money; rather, the inflation will continue -- interrupted by the occasional deflation scare but not by actual deflation -- until a monetary collapse occurs. 7. The current monetary system's Ponzi-scheme-like nature stems from the fact that each new dollar borrowed into existence creates a liability in excess of one dollar due to the obligation to pay interest. This characteristic has, over the decades, resulted in the obligations to pay dollars becoming many times greater than the total supply of dollars, so the dollar supply must continue to expand in order for the system to survive. Or, putting it another way, if there ever was a chance for the Fed to allow the US to experience a 'cleansing' period of deflation that chance is long gone. The issue, therefore, is not whether the Fed will ATTEMPT to maintain the inflation (it doesn't have another option), but whether it will be ABLE to maintain the inflation. === As regards Is**m’s understanding of usury is concerned the following is one aspect. http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=usury+equal+matter&translato r=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all Put in other words ‘no Ponzi scheme’ whether direct or indirect! Interest causes Ponzi scheme in the existing financial set up! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
The differrence between a Ponzi scheme and a credit based economic system is that under the former nothing is produced, while in a real economy goods and services are produced. To comapre the two as equivalent betrays an ignorance of economics. Here is as simple as it gets to explain why credit is not an evil, a system first presented by a Bangladeshi with success, micro loans, and now adopted in many parts of the world. This is as elemental as it gets to get people out of poverty. In more developed nations and economies, this simple principle over the centuries had been developed with greater sophistication. This is why the developed world is not as poor as the under developed world. We don't care what it says in you 'holy' Quran, because charging interest is merely a mathematical form of payment for lending one's capital for productive purposes over time. The fact that it works proves your 'holy' teachings nonsense, and wrong. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Mohideen, if Chinese interests are at risk while transporting oil or gas on the way to Suez, past Palestinian Hamas, or Hezbollah, areas of risk, don't you think it would be cheaper and more effective to patrol the waters, and send military escort, rather than going to war in Lebanon? I keep telling you Hezbollah, and Hamas, started these fights, but somehow this fact seems to escape you. They attacked Israel, not the other way around; Israel has a right to defend itself, as does any sovereign state, whether Muslims like or or not. This is not a religious issue, nor apocalyptic issue as Iran would make it, but one of attack and self defense. Very simple, no conspiracies, just the facts. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
This referenced outfit is quite a trip, in my opinion. Are they saying the terror plot caught in Britain didn't exist? That British police made it up? Get real. They make no rational sense, are sensational in their prognosis and predictions, and in denial of what's going on in the world. Who are they, what's their angle? Are they more into selling their stories for advertising dollars than really getting into the truth of things? I don't know them, but it appears this is not a knowledgeable service, but a sensational one. Why don't they talk about productivity gains, and how 'deflation' kept Japan low for about a decade, when their base assets, land and property, crashed? It can happen here too. Inflation is not a one way trip, but it can also backfire, if central banks are not careful. This is why the Greenspan era, started earlier by Volker, was so careful to allow monetary growth to only match, not exceed, the growth in GDP. Is this good? History will judge. The fact that Mohideen reads low caliber stuff like this, and then hangs around the Humancafe forums, makes me worried. Are we doing something wrong on this site to attract uncritical reason? I hope not. (Though, that said, it's okay to get Mohideen's input, even if sometimes it leave me head scratching. ) In any case, the 321Gold people have a lot of simplistic ideas about gold, currencies, world events, not too critical in reason. Gold is a base asset for money when monetary policy fails, but it is a cumbersome medium of exchange, which is why central banks defaulted to fiat money. It's fine, as long as their monetary policy does not outrace productivity and population growth, or GDP. That's been in effect for decades, and it works, so why scare the public? What's their angle? Are they gold merchants? Good luck to them and their readers, but reality is a different place from what they write, in my humble opinion. Ivan Ps: there's a simple explanation on how money works, as a unit of exchange, in Habeas Mentem: Ch. 13; How Do We Measure Value? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5263930.stm German bomb threat was not a joke, could have been horriffic. But it didn't happen, mostly due to happenstance, the bomb's didn't blow. Another 'conspiracy' Mohideen? I'm beginning to feel like 90% of worldwide violence is generated by 'religion of peace', which now becomes an oxymoron. Too bad. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
But it didn't happen, mostly due to happenstance, the bomb's didn't blow. Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 07:37 pm: Ivan The link given is repeated below with a quote from its contents. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5263930.stm === A handwritten note in Arabic, listing groceries, a telephone number in Lebanon and packets of starch labelled in Arabic and English, were also found. Mr Ziercke said up to 100 investigators were trying to work out why the devices failed to detonate. "We still have many unanswered questions," he said. === It is obvious why the bombs didn’t blow. If the bombs had blown the handwritten Arabic note with a phone number in Lebanon would have become ashes and the link to Lebanon would have vanished. Let us not forget that Israel is fighting a media war as well. Let us remember that IDF had penetrated into Lebanese space sometime in July itself. It would indeed be interesting if the phone number happens to lead to some terrorist in Lebanon financed by Iran! Better still that the terrorist is already dead because the dead speak no words. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
That British police made it up? Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 07:08 pm: Ivan In my humble opinion it is the act of the Illuminati. The British police are equal victims as the world population at large. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
… don't you think it would be cheaper and more effective to patrol the waters, and send military escort, rather than going to war in Lebanon? Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 06:47 pm: Ivan Let us look at the results of the just ‘suspended’ Israel – Hezbollah war. 1. The UN Security Council has taken it upon itself to disarm Hezbollah. The resolution might expect the Lebanese Government to disarm the Hezbollah. However if the Lebanese Government does not achieve that objective within a reasonable time there could as well be another UN Security Council resolution organizing a UN force to disarm the Hezbollah. So the job of Israel is now the job of the world. 2. The infrastructure of a substantial part of Lebanon is in shambles. The corporate sector might have expected that it would get the reconstruction contracts as happened in Iraq. Unfortunately Hezbollah seems to be getting involved in the reconstruction activity. Thus the corporate sector has – at least temporarily – lost a number of lucrative contracts. 3. Whenever any activity requires security arrangements, the cost of those security arrangements are added to that activity. Thus escorting oil tankers along the coasts controlled by Hezbollah and Hamas would add to the cost of oil that gets supplied to China for example. This additional cost reduces the profit to the corporate sector. 4. Providing armed frigates to escort the oil tankers cuts in the availability of the Navy for ‘regime change’ elsewhere. There could be other reasons but the above might suffice for the present. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Mohideen, if you have some substantial evidence to this effect, it might be most useful. I'm sure Homeland Security would be interested as well, if there were a 'competing' faction for world terrorism, the kind practiced by Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, or independent 'wanabees' splinter Muslim groups. To date, this has been a Muslim thing, but perhaps you have some insights the rest of the world doesn't have, which would be useful. At least, if you make a statement like this, saying the Illuminati are involved, then make a case. I've casually known Templars and Illuminati adherents, but they were "the nicest people who wouled never do anything like this", which is often heard from neighbors and friends of apprehended terrorists. But I've never known of any blowing themselves or others up in the name of their "Illuminati jihad" as practiced by some members of another said peaceful-religion. Any info you can share? Just curious. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/1146240.stm Iranian, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine - General Command (PFLP-GC), and Syrian linked to the bombing of PANAM 103. http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/lockerbie/story/story_frame5. html PANAM 103 the case against Iran and Syria It is clear from events that Iran and Syria are still inolved in supporting terrorism through a higly evolved network of contacts. Since the bombing of PANAM 103 the Syrian's and Iranian's have expanded their support to terrorist movements, like Hezbolla to include advanced weapons and equipment ranging from anti-ship cruise missile, shoulder fired anti-aircraft missles and anti-tank missiles in Lebenon to advanced IED's in Iraq. Like the bombing of PANAM 103, and I note the timing device used to detonate the bomb was of East German origin, the Syrian's and Iranian's are clearly obtaining high technology to support terrorist operations from the former Soviet Warsaw Pact and now China. In terms of world view Mohideen should look at the above links to find out its not the Illuminati, but the Jihadists that are behind these recent terrorist attacks. Due to politics at the time the Syrian and Iranian and East German links to PANAM 103 were not pursued. The Lybians conducted the operation and were used as fall guys for it, to shield Iran and Syria from retaliation after the PFLP-GC cell was broken up by the Germans. It is also important to note that at the time of PANAM 103 the Iran-contra was affair was being closed down and any effort to implicate Iran in the downing of PANAM 103 would have involved a deepening of the IRAN Contra-Affair that was plaguing the United States Adminsitration at the time. Its called the Politics of Blackmail. The Iranian had enough information on Iran-Contra to bring down the United States Government that was in power at the time. They used it to shield themselves from sanctions in the downing of PANAM 103. In the Great Game of Geo-Politics is important to look at all the factors behind events, including forensic evidence such as Russian anti-tank missiles supplied to Iran ending up in Lebenon, Chinese anti-ship cruise missiles in Lebenon and East German timing devices for bombs ending up in PANAM 103, along with advanced remote controle IED's in Iraq made by the Iranians. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Mohideen, if you have some substantial evidence to this effect, it might be most useful. Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 07:53 am: Ivan I just performed a search on ‘Illuminati’ in http://news.google.com/ expecting a message that there are no items to display. To my surprise, I found that there are 95 recent news items. This link might be interesting: http://www.etherzone.com/2006/mako080706.shtml | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
How can we have peace with this coming out of their mouths? " "They think they can protect us better that the resistance," snorts Mrs Abbas. "They are sitting ducks; the resistance is hiding behind every rock, every tree, ready to ambush the Israelis." " -BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5265926.stm Compare this with this surah of the 'religion of peace': 2:191 in Qu'ran: "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers." Or in 9:5: "Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikoon (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." I think there's even a translation which talks about hiding behind rocks and trees, though maybe not this surah. Hezbollah is lauded by the common people, so the woman quoting above is actually just being a good Muslim in her desire to ambush and kill. Tsk tsk tsk, how sad. What a burden to carry all your life, that your god tells you to kill. What a regressive philosophy for humanity. A god that rules by coercions is NOT the One God. * * * Mohideen, RE your link to Illuminati. I asked for EVIDENCE of this, not some raving witch hunt for ghosts and shadows of some alleged cult. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
The danger of hyper-tolerance of other cultures as practiced in Western societies: http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5774 Making the world safe for Sharia Law shows how intolerant this religion is towards everyone else. Killing gays and lesbians "in the worst possible manner" is just one aspect of this 'religion of peace.' There must be some diabolical difference in semantics between what we mean by "peace" and what they mean. Killings in the name of their evil god is not peaceful, by any reasonable standard. In fact, do we really care about what this religious barbarism is all about? Not in the least, until they flex their muscle and start killing. Then this 'religion' must be outlawed. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
THIS IS THE MUSLIM MIND - fatalistically unreasonable and devoid of all personal responsibility except to their Allah. " * Fatalism. One of the greatest subtle, yet important differences between the Muslim’s mindset and that of the people in the West is the extent to which Muslims are fatalistic. There is hardly a statement that a Muslim makes without being conditional—conditional on the will of Allah. “I shall see you tomorrow, Allah willing,” “You will make it home, Allah willing,” “Things will work out, Allah willing,” and on and on and on. To the Muslim, Allah is on the job—on every job. Allah, with his invisible mighty hand literally does and runs everything. “Allah’s hand is above all other hands,” adorns every imaginable space in Islamic lands—a telling point about the Muslim’s fatalism and submission to the omnipotent omnipresent hand. If something happens, it is Allah’s will. If it doesn’t, it is Allah’s will. The rank and file Muslim has little will of his own. It absolves him of any and all responsibility. This mentality is in stark contrast with the “take charge” and “can do” mentality characteristic of Americans and others." Read more here: http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=380 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
I asked for EVIDENCE of this Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:43 am: Ivan Neither do I command any intelligence agency nor am I privy to one. For me evidence is the information I get in the open field. No other evidence. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Am I to understand that you have no specific information, even if unfiltered, about this Illuminati threat? I'm refering to your statement: "In my humble opinion it is the act of the Illuminati. The British police are equal victims as the world population at large." So you have no reasonable information or data to support this claim? Why did you say it? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
So you have no reasonable information or data to support this claim? Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 07:05 pm: Ivan Aren’t my claims having the same strength as the claims by others that the 9/11 and 7/7 are the work of the Muslims? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
-Mohideen No. Your claim, though you may not agree, is unsubstantiated. The evidence behind who killed innocent people in 911, 311, 711, 1012, and 77 and others, in countries from Phillipines to Argentina, were substantiated. You have no claim, other than wanting to prove your religion innocent of this barbarity. Unfortunately, for you and all good people who happen to be Muslims, this does not jive with reality. It would be a far better thing if you addressed the real problem you suffer internally, rather than succumbing to denial, or blame of others, and stop the madness. The problem is yours, and yours alone, own up to it. Stop your Jihad. Speak out against it, even riot if you will against it, but this Jihad is a violent pariah on your faith. Then, when you are done rioting, address 9:5, 9:23, and 2:191 of your prophet's text he claimed was the word of God. They are pure coercion, not from God. You have much work to do, to lift the burden of condemnation Isl*m has accumulated through the ages, unto today. You have much work to do to lift the veil of ignorance. The problem will not go away, and your faith will be rejected by all good people worldwide, even if you are in denial over it. I acknowledge your deep faith, and admire it, but it is better placed elsewhere, where God truly reigns, in the land of freedom, as practiced by free men and women living in tolerance of each other's beliefs. We call it religious freedom, such as practiced in the land you've chosen to live in. But it does not condone the killings of 'infidels' - ever. That is criminal behavior, unconditionally unacceptable. We, however imperfect in our ways, are much closer to doing God's will as free human beings than those who are slaves of Allah. Just so you understand how I understand it. Still, I wish you no malice, but would prefer that reality was more of a guide for you than some conspiracy, or the ancient texts that no longer have validity in a world where slavery was abolished. Please do not take this as a personal condemnation, but treat it as a personal observation. The future is with our rights to freedom, and not in religiously inspired slavery of men and women. Shariah is not the future. Rule of constitutional law to safeguard our freedoms, and our equality before the law, for both men and women, those are our future. As free men and women worldwide, we will face you and stop you. We know the value and strength of freedom. Maybe one day the foggy veil of blind belief will lift from your eyes, and you will too. With respect and kind wishes, Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The rank and file Muslim has little will of his own. It absolves him of any and all responsibility. This mentality is in stark contrast with the “take charge” and “can do” mentality characteristic of Americans and others." Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 03:19 pm: Anonymous I tried to get statistics on mental illness in different countries so that one could consider the effect of “will of his own” on the general welfare of the population. If someone could give the URL we would like to look into this aspect. http://www.who.int/healthinfo/statistics/gbdwhoregionincidence2002.xls === Intentional injuries (cases severe enough to warrant medical attention) Self-inflicted: Total 10,170,000 AFRO: 502,000; AMRO: 1,040,000; EMRO: 599,000; EORO: 1,494,000; SEARO: 3,261,000; WPRO: 3,274,000 === http://www.ciesin.columbia.edu/IC/who/who.html gives the expansion of EMRO as ‘Regional Office for the Eastern Mediterranean. The EMRO has just 5.89% of the total self-inflicted intentional injuries. Are we off the mark if we believe that the ‘Inshah Allah fatalism’ seems to provide better mental health? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
The evidence behind who killed innocent people in 911, 311, 711, 1012, and 77 and others, in countries from Phillipines to Argentina, were substantiated. Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 09:50 pm: Ivan Really? Before we attacked Afghanistan in 2001 the Taliban pleaded with us to provide the evidence of the involvement of Osama Bin Laden in the 911 act. All that we could provide was ‘shelter buster bombs.’ Forget about the fake video and audio confessions. For a Muslim court we need eye witness accounts to be offered by the witness in flesh and blood. In the absence of Osama Bin Laden confessing in person or reliable witnesses giving evidence in real life there is no substantiated evidence. The so called evidences offered so far as far as we are concerned are ‘hearsay.’ | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Mohideen, try telling that to the families of the so called witches stoned to death in Saudi Arabia. Any system of justice that in this day and age reverts to belief in magic is a farce. I am sure that they have many flesh and blood witnesses during the trial of witches | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
You proved my point exactly by this, Mohideen. Denial of reality, insistence on your internalized 'reality' of scripture, and ultimately shifting blame. That seems to be the 'reality' you have accepted. Until you learn truths are not lies, and lies are not truth, you're a hopeless case. No amount of real evidence will make a dent on you. Unfortunately, this seems to be a general condition for many in your faith, so we cannot take you seriously. More people are coming to a point where your faith cannot be treated as equal to other religions, those based on love rather than kill (do a word search in your 'holy' Qu'ran you the word "kill" and you'll see what I mean)*, so must relegate your actions based on your beliefs as deviant, and dangerous. If you are not equal to the rest of humanity, then your humanness is called in question. We deal with mafia-like organizations a certain way, and this will be the way we will deal with yours. We don't need your confessions, because your denials gives us evidence of your inability to face truth. So we'll deal with it, no matter what you believe. And if your belief is criminal, then it must be stopped. Why do you think more people are now looking at your faith with ridicule? We're not stupid. Social predators are dealt with, period. *(The word(s) "kill" appears 133 time(s) in 101 verse(s) in Quran in M. Khan translation. By contrast, this is what is says about "love": "But those who believe, love Allah more (than anything else)." NEVER does your love profess love for life or humanity. There is the stark failure of your messenger's message.) Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
do a word search in your 'holy' Qu'ran you the word "kill" and you'll see what I mean Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 07:26 am: Ivan I did the search in four translations supported in a site I use. The search has different styles: 1. any word; 2. all words; and 3. exact phrase. I normally use the default which is all words, which I believe you had done. Consider the search given by http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=kill&translator=2&search=1&start=0 for ‘kill’ in Yusuf Ali translation. Look at the 8th result produced below: === (8) They said: "A confused medley of dreams: and we are not skilled in the interpretation of dreams." === The word ‘kill’ does not appear; but the word ‘skill’ does appear. The search engine seems to pick the part of the word ‘skill’ that matches with the search word ‘kill’ and returns a spurious result. I chose ‘exact phrase’ as the style of search and re-did the search. http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=kill&chapter=&translator=2&search= 1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=exact This URL returns just 5 Verses: 4:29, 4:92, 5:95, 6:151, and 60:12. I searched the other translations also under ‘exact phrase’ and got the following: http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=kill&chapter=&translator=3&search= 1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=exact The above in Shakir translation returns all the 5 Verses returned for Yusuf Ali translation and 14 more Verses. http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=kill&chapter=&translator=4&search= 1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=exact The search in Pickthal translation yields 20 Verses but not 6:151. It gives 16 Verses not given while searching Yusuf Ali translation. http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=kill&chapter=&translator=5&search= 1&search_word=exact&start=0&records_display=10&phonetic= This search in Mohsin Khan translation yields 45 Verses while returning all the 5 Verses found while searching Yusuf Ali’s translation. We consider the Verse 6:151 under all translations in http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=6&from_verse=151&to_v erse=151&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal= 1&show_mkhan=1 1. Yusuf Ali: Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 2. Shakir: Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-- (remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear of) poverty-- We provide for you and for them-- and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed, and do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden except for the requirements of justice; this He has enjoined you with that you may understand. 3. Pickthal: Say: Come, I will recite unto you that which your Lord hath made a sacred duty for you: That ye ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye do good to parents, and that ye slay not your children because of penury - We provide for you and for them - and that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern. 4. M. Khan: Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawahish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islamic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand. It seems Pickthal has used the word ‘slay’ instead of ‘kill.’ Well, both mean the same. What does Verse 6:151 say. Not to kill children to escape poverty, and not to kill unless the law demands. I have written the above just to show that superficial analyses lead to avoidable misunderstandings. Not that the Holy Quran does not talk about killing the enemy; it does. As I understand it, it is always in defense and never in offence. I hope to analyze all the Verses yielded by the above URLs. However I do not have the time at my disposal to do such a comprehensive analysis now. Such an analysis is expected to be reported in my web http://www.deentech.com in future, God Almighty willing (Inshah Allah). Oops! I also suffer from Inshah Allah fatalism! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/18/1352248 === Craig Murray is Britain's former ambassador to Uzbekistan. … CRAIG MURRAY: Yes, they spoke, according to -- and I should say, my source of this is the mainstream media. Sky News, which is the Fox News affiliate over here, showed still photographs, which they said were -- heard George Bush having this conversation with Tony Blair, in which they discussed the timing of the arrests, and they discussed them on the Sunday before the arrests were made the following Thursday. And that's very peculiar to me. That immediately rings all kinds of alarm bells. I mean, if this is a genuine potential imminent terrorist operation, it's strange that all these amazing new hold-ups at airports weren't introduced for another four days until after the people had been arrested. That seems strange. === Is it conspiracy to question the inaction of the UK government for four days until after the culprits had been arrested? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
KILL KILLL KILLLLLL Using "exact phrase" I came up with this: "The word(s) "kill" appears 64 time(s) in 45 verse(s) in Quran in M. Khan translation." Perhaps the other translations come up differently, using other words such as "slay" or "subdue", but the idea is the same. The Quran is violent. Here are some worrisome (for us non-Muslims) sample quotes from this search: (2) After this, it is you who kill one another and drive out a party of you from their homes, assist (their enemies) against them, in sin and transgression. And if they come to you as captives, you ransom them, although their expulsion was forbidden to you. Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest? Then what is the recompense of those who do so among you, except disgrace in the life of this world, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be consigned to the most grievous torment. And Allah is not unaware of what you do. And that was just part of the the first page! Five pages in all from your 'god of peace', an oxymoron if ever there was one; by contrast, here is an example of Allah's "mercy and compassion" (applies to Muslims only, your god is bigoted) not applicable to Earth's humanity, only for his exclusively chosen violent instruments of your god's 'unholy' rage against 'unbelievers': (7) O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you. But your god forgives only his own cult-worshippers, not a universal forgiveness at all. Imagine 1400 years of brutality against humanity, and it begins to dawn that perhaps this is a religion misnamed. What are Muslims going to do now to change that image of violence, intolerance, brutality, invasiveness, murder, mass murder, etc? What will you do to change this evil against humanity? Enough bullshit. Let's get some results, real facts, not just rhetoric about what 'Allah said' to Mohammed. The truth is that this is merely what Mohammed said. Period. There is no love but a narcistic love for your god by your god to whom you are slaves and must love that god more than anything else. This god who insists he's the only One is psychopathically sick. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
May I offer Isl*m a leg up? Allow your women more equality to men first, then let your women interpret the Quranic and Hadith traditions from their perspective. These may be your first steps towards emancipation from a male dominated slavery to violence. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Regarding 'conspiracy' on British Muslim Jihadists blowing up US bound flights: This http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5268932.stm vs. this http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/18/1352248 Which to believe? Which is more reasonable? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Which to believe? Which is more reasonable? Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 01:00 pm: Ivan Truth is stranger than fiction. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
Why not? Mohideen, I just had the most wonderful inspiration, a vision. Can you imagine all of Isl*m liberated from so many restrictions? Imagine the beauty of all those people who had been suppressed for centuries, suddenly liberated. Their arts, their music, their song, all flowing like a fountain bursting over the dams that held them back for so long. I cannot imagine a more beautiful sight. It would be fabulous! The people would be beautiful. Why not? Freedom is an exceptionally powerful force. I am sure God would approve infinitely. Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ivan, I hope your vision comes about but given the realities of the world I doubt it will come anytime soon. I have just watched Baghdad ER and have attached a link to it as I think it bears on this discussion of the Rise of Radicalism from the perspective of what we are enduring in hopes of bringing change to Iraq and in the end a beginning of the vision you had. The question that remains however is wether or not the Muslim people will embrace change or reject it. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1968943&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312 Marine's Mom Views Son's Last Hours in HBO's 'Baghdad ER' For my part I was part of the effort to change the middle east and Iraq through the force of arms. In doing so I helped bring about great destruction on the Iraqi People and Armies of Saddam. I have attached a few links that cover what I helped bring about. During my career and service at the United States National Training Center, I developed the training scenarios that prepared and trained the forces we deployed to the first Gulf War. I then served as a technical advisor to the air forces that later went on to bomb the Iraqis. I warn the viewers that some of the links I have attached contain graphic pictures of casualties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death http://deoxy.org/wc/warcrime.htm http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0212/pt04.html What I learned in the end after all of this is that change must come from within. During the Cold War I planned to do to the Soviets and Eastern Europe far worse than the highway of death using nuclear weapons. This is the price of war and I was one of the best the military had with regards to this type of buisiness. In Saudi Arabia I developed a plan that allowed a Suadi National Guard Company to destroy an entire Saudi Battalion in simulated combat in the deserts outside of Ryahd. In the end I could no longer reconcile my service in the military and killing with service to humanity and had to walk away. I truly hope that your vision of a future for the Muslims comes to pass. For me I was part of two efforts to change the nature of the Middle East and to date have seen little progress being made as a result of these efforts and much loss of life. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
Their arts, their music, their song, all flowing like a fountain bursting over the dams that held them back for so long. Posted on Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 08:09 pm: Ivan We build a dam; collect the water. We like to release the water and generate electricity and irrigate our lands. We hope the dam does not burst and destroy. Likewise the artistic talents of Muslims could be exploited without any conflict with their faith. Let me remind myself and others: the faith I talk of is defined by the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions alone. The work of Muslim thinkers during the past 14 centuries could guide but their concepts would not be accepted unless and until they could be derived from the sources. The following Tradition could not be quoted alone by any of the 78 URLs returned for a Google search on “Tirmidhi instruments stringed wind” and thus I might be permitted to quote. Tradition numbered 1029 in Al-Tirmidhi found in ALIM CD is: === Narrated AbuUmamah The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "Allah has sent me as a mercy to the universe and as a guidance to the universe, and my Lord, Who is Great and Glorious, has commanded me to annihilate stringed instruments, wind instruments, idols, crosses and pre-Islamic customs. My Lord, Who is Great and Glorious has sworn, 'By My might, none of My servants will drink a mouthful of wine without My giving him a similar amount of pus to drink, but he will not abandon it through fear of Me without My giving him drink from the holy tanks.'" Ahmad transmitted it. === Notice that the command is to annihilate stringed instruments and wind instruments and not music itself. Under the impression that only a few musical instruments are allowed, Muslim music has developed. http://www.meem.info/11455.html describes a number of Muslim groups which do not use stringed or wind instruments. As what is forbidden is clearly forbidden in Isl*m, we avoid the forbidden instruments and still produce music to rival the best orchestra in the world. Yes we can. What about the instrument described in http://www.geartree.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/29865/vpid/1368999/vpcsid/0/ rid/117758 Does it have any strings to produce the music? Or does it have any wind pipes to produce the music? None! So the above instrument is indeed permitted for a Muslim to use. He /she could play music using it or indeed produce music also. The documentation http://www.openlabs.com/images/OMX%20Manual%20011d%20web.pdf claims that in one configuration it can play up to 32 virtual instruments. That means we could produce music to match any orchestra with a maximum of 32 players. What is the significance of the Tradition? When a musician works with stringed or wind instrument the versatility of the instrument is low. Thus the innovation is constrained by the instrument. I do hope that soon software to scan-in the musical notes to be played by the above or similar advanced musical instruments gets done so that the musician spends all the time creating innovative music rather than assembling a team of musicians each handling very restrictive instruments and spends hours and hours in training the team. Should Muslims have waited for the 21st century to really create great music? No. A ventriloquist uses his voice to produce other sounds. However the quality of the music that we could produce with up to 32 virtual instruments would be far superior to that of just one individual. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
For thousands of years mankind has created music in all its forms as a expression of love and respect for God. To claim that Muslim music is far superior to that of the rest of the world is a farce. What god would order the destruction of musical instruments that have been built in honor of God. No wonder the world looks on Muslims as a backward and primative people. I have looked at Baghdad ER and believe from the posting of Mohideen that it is both futile and not worth the price we are paying to try and uplift the Muslims of the Middle East. Far better in my opinion to leave them to their own devices. As to the highway of death, I weep only for those damaged by having to had to bring it about. The root cause of the Highway of death was Muslim inability to accept defeat, loss of face and responsibility for their actions. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
A good trick. Will the real "Mohideen Ibrahmsha" please stand up. -as posted by "Mohideen Ibramsha" Something I see repeatedly in Muslim writings, where there are self-canceling ideas, almost as if this self-cancelation is somehow not only worthy as a head-scratching puzzle, but even indicative of something more sublime, an attribute of their god, that contradiction is a sign of superior intelligence. I find this amusing, but it has roots in ancient thinking, especially aboriginal thinking where the sensible universe is supplanted by the extraordinary universe. Dreamtime of the Australians is one example, but any magic based belief-system will have a similar component, where reason is mistrusted, because devils lie, and a supernatural existence, though untestable, is believed instead, especially because it is supernatural and untestable. So here in the above we have a god, nay, a "Great and Glorious" god, who commands the annihilation of musical instruments, among other things, as a proof of this supernatural power over the known world. To accept this then requires a supernatural belief, and submission to this supernatural, to prove one's true worth to this glorious idea, that such instruments, and other things, must be destroyed. This is a direct linkage to the primitive mind, that impresses with wholly unholy reason, to make itself appear holy. The shaman will use a similar trick, as did the ancient priests who hid behind stone statues and 'spoke' for them in mysterious voices to impress the congregants. The simple people were impressed, so the trick worked. Now to make it really impressive, you say, in the tradition of priests and shamans, that god has told you something truly outrageous, like destroying all musical instruments. Not because these instruments are bothersome to shaitan, but because god said that they must go, as a test of your devotion, as a sacrifice of yourself and what you cherish, to prove through your sacrifice your worth as a believer. So once the test is accepted, and the initiates who believed this crushed all their beautiful instruments, this primitive test by the shaman priest is now complete, and his power is assured. He knows he's got them where he wants them. What Mohideen illustrated above is an example of such power brokering, where the Muslim mind is numbed to accept this as if it were true. Throw in symbolism of Christianity or Judaism, or Jainism or Buddhism or Hinduism or Zoroastriism, and you've got the whole thing wrapped up, along with the musical instruments. Your acceptance now puts you in the power of the shaman. In effect, this god puts a gruesome test in the old fashioned shamanistic tradition, a primitive type of belief system test, that if you are "with me, then do this, though you will not like it" and thus prove your worth as a believer. This impressed simple minds then. Obviously it still has the power to impress simple minds now. Matter of fact, I am so impressed with this line of reason, that I am willing to believe that god said to me that Mohideen does not exist, is actually a clever reconstruction of a dramatic character in some novel, only made to appear real here, in that shamanistic tradition, to confuse us about what God really said. So, though we may think we are hearing the voice, or seeing the writings of a real person, in fact we are not, but a cleverly constructed shill placed in our midst to represent someone's cruel joke on this forum, that we are seeking the truth. What better way to confuse the truth than to create a character who will confuse your every effort at finding it? So, Mohideen, if your god told you to destroy the beauty of music, do you really exist? Or are you a fictional character, another self-canceling contradiction, manipulated by some clever bloke who knows how to amuse us, by confusing us? If so, then I am amused. Ivan Ps: I suspect Dr. Pepper, the OP who introduced this "Mohideen" character, is behind this, by creating this almost believable 'unreal' character to amuse us with his most outrageous contortions of the truth, and then place the blame on Muslim traditions. This artificial fictional character was created explicitly to illustrate the absurdity of the Muslim mind... Good joke Dr. P.!! Pps: What do you think Ed and Naive, is this good? A good joke? I was fooled for over 4 months! I must raise a glass of good red wine to this great character created for our entertainment. Well done. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ivan |
BTW, Mohideen, I hope you appreciate that the above argument was writen in a satyrical style, to be taken with a grain of humor. The analogy of the shaman priest making mysterious voices from behind the stone statue is maybe well fitting, since it sounds real, though real people will know that it is not real. This is the point, that though you may quote what you think is real, it is no more real than the illusion created by the quotes, only parading as reality. This is what those willy old priests did, to impress the simple. In itself, this would be harmless, and amusing, except for the fact that when it incites people to act, especially to act violently towards others, then what is on the surface nonsensical and amusing becomes deadly serious. Think of the millions of families over the centuries who suffered kidnapping, beheadings, sold into slavery, torn apart, and killed, all in the name of God. War and injustice had been with us forever, as history is witness, but to do this "in the name of God" is something much worse and evil. Such an evil cannot go unrewarded, and it may even be that the reason Isl*m is fatalistic, is because they carry this burden in their chests, though never to admit such, that they had caused so much pain and death on a global scale. How will God punish you now, without making it horrific? There is the tragedy of your faith, built upon a false and violent premise. So today we face Muslim Jihad suicide killers, and the world will make you face reality, eventually if not immediately. And that voice from behind the false gods will be exposed. The false teachings are known as such because they crush to beauty of the human soul, and kill life rather than rejoice in it. Far better the people accept the sureal unreality of it sooner than later, because otherwise when God's punishment comes down on them, it may be equal to what had been dished out over the centuries in the name of that same God. For this, I already fear is about to happen. Of course, I'm sure you really do exist, or at least as a voice on the web. I hope you took no offense, but accept it as the humor it was meant to be. The reality is far harsher than I can make it. And this makes me afraid of what one day we will witness. August 22nd is already time in the Middle East. Anything happen? Ivan | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Naive |
1. Orwell's "1984" - Allah is Big Brother demanding all love! 2. Ed is right "change must come from within", but we will help with economics - a la the cold war. 3. The world retribution that Ivan speaks of will be economic not military. 4. First step will be embargo and then the ultimate stroke: a move away from oil dependency and usage. 5. Yes Mohideen the U.S. government is indeed corrupt. It works to perpetuate itself at any cost. See J. Edgar Hoover, Cointelpro, etc. 6. Radical Muslims world wide are angered that U.S. citizenry doesn't do anything about it. 7. U.S. citizens wonder why Muslim nations can't control some of their radical citizens. 8. History will say: Futile action vs. Futile Inaction. 9. I am truly amazed at the whole "stringed" and "wind" instrument passages. 10. We use this expression in sports: If coach says run into a wall, then run into a wall! It is a way to instill discipline. 11. To believe that God/Allah would test the loyalty of his creations in such a way is mind blowing. 12. The Plague caused Christianity to loosen its grip on the minds of Europeans. For Imperial Japan (WWII) it was the atom bomb. 13. Don't underestimate the skill and cunning of the U.S. government to learn from these lessons. It is the essence of Self-perpetuation! 14. The belief in conspiracy is futile. All leaders conspire to keep power. It is a survival mechanism of any nation. 15. That's why U.S. citizens don't do anything about it (we want leaders who maintain our world status quo). 16. That's why Muslim countries sometimes fund rather than control their radicals. 17. The common man is the victim. The common man is the beneficiary (at least in the U.S.). 18. That is why it is easy to inspire hatred of the U.S. - Jealousy of the quality of life regardless of government corruption. 19. Radicals (Muslim or otherwise) don't understand the game of politics or are mad that they're excluded from it. 20. So they attack the helpless in order to incite the masses against their governments. In fact the opposite happens. 21. The masses then rely on their ruling bodies to strike back. 22. In this game only the powerful, most experienced, or most cunning win. 23. Thus radicalism only works when it comes in the form of internal revolution; never as an attack tactic from an outside source. 24. And who is doing a better job of inspiring internal chaos within its enemy in this war? 25. These radicals and terrorists only bring about the destruction of all they love by provoking the experts in this game. 26. And if conspiracy holds true and some other agent is the cause, well then why do the radicals - who seemingly know so much about this whole process - play the part the conspiracy requires them to play? 27. The only answer could be blind stupidity or futile bravery. 28. Here's a alternate conspiracy theory - maybe the radicals depend on U.S. imperialism so that they will have the villian they require for the perpetuation of their own ideology and rhetoric. 29. Maybe its not stupidity after all. Maybe its political self preservation. Naive | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Naive |
Maybe a new thread should be started about weening the U.S. from its oil consumption, and the possible economic and environmental ramifications therein. Naive | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Ivan, I have checked Mohideen Ibramsha out and he is a Associate Professor of Computer Science at Framingham State College in MA. He started posting on Jihad watch taking a position to advocate for the Muslims and defend their faith. The problem I have with him is that he supports armed Jihad within a more limited context within Arabia and I suspect sympathizes with those groups attempting to rebuild the Calipate. From his statements it is clear that he has a network of family and friends from India and Saudi Arabia. He I suspect is like the University professors that have come out in support of the conspiracy theory behind 9/11, lending their credentials to back up the claim. In this he is potentialy dangerous in that through his contacts in the Middle East he, in their mind, lends credibility to the conspiracy theories of the Muslim streat. What he has also done is set himself up as a Martyr to the cause of a version of Isl*mic conservaatism, by proving to the readers that Isl*m is underattack by a worldwide conspiracy and that Muslims can not defend their faith in any forum without being attacked. In all he has done Masterful job of playing to the Arab Street by playing the victim. When asked to prove his point he either refered to obscure websites that support conspiracy theory or returned to the Koran. And as he has said to me he is working on a software algorythem to do predictive analysis. In that effort I wish him well but suspect that he will have little success in that project because of his worldview Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Music is hated by Allah, so is poetry. "Allah curses poets except those who praise Him and Muhammad Allah’s great dislike for poets should not surprise us. We read before that Muhammad could not answer the Arab poets who composed better verses than Muhammad’s Qur’an. As a result of such calumnies from those insolent poets, Allah too was angry with them. Along with Muhammad, Allah cursed the poets and their poems. Here are some verses from the Qur’an to demonstrate Allah’s boundless ire, reserved especially for the poets who dared to challenge Muhammad. Poets are evils; those who follow poets are in error; they are mischievous and do not practice what they preach…26:224–226 026.224 YUSUFALI: And the Poets,- It is those straying in Evil, who follow them 026.225 YUSUFALI: Seest thou not that they wander distracted in every valley?- 026.226 YUSUFALI: And that they say what they practise not? But Allah also practices double-standard. Frustrated with his feeble response to the giant Pagan poets of those days, Muhammad hastened to commission a poet, Hasan b. Thabit to compose poetry for Allah. This pleased Allah so much that He quickly sent down from sky a revelation approving Muhammad’s appointment of poets to lambaste the Arab bards. Mind you, Allah’s poets must have a deep hatred and vengeance towards the infidels. Only and only then Allah will like them. Mere composition of liturgy for Allah’s praise is not enough; the Islamic poets must compose poems declaring their deep hatred for the non-Muslims." Read the 'loves and hates' of Allah here: http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=389 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
From his statements it is clear that he has a network of family and friends from India and Saudi Arabia. Ed Chesky Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 02:33 am: Anonymous Dear Ed, I have no network. It is natural for one who was born and brought up in India to have family there. Also it is natural for a teacher to be remembered by some students. I taught in Saudi Arabia from 1984 to 1991. The network implies a sinister connotation. I work alone. As you could have seen I search the Internet to frame some replies and I do give the URL. I just desired to set the record straight. Incidentally I retired from Framingham State College on December 24, 2002. I hope that we could indeed usher-in an era of peace. I have learnt a lot about my religion by the interactions I have had recently. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Mohideen Ibramsha |
I suspect Dr. Pepper, the OP who introduced this "Mohideen" character, is behind this, by creating this almost believable 'unreal' character to amuse us with his most outrageous contortions of the truth, and then place the blame on Muslim traditions. Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 05:58 pm: Ivan Am I real? Or am I a clever AI program? Well when I pinch myself it hurts. So I must be real. Wait a minute! What if the hurt is simulated? Ivan I read the above post by you at least 15 minutes back. I am still smiling. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Anonymous |
Mohideen Ibramsha, I too am remembered by the friends I made and students I taught in Saudi Arabia. As part of my teaching War Game Theory there. a high ranking member of a tribe that spread from Syria to Yemen and all over Saudi Arabia told me that I was welcome in his tribe as a honored guest under their protection from the moutains above Damscus to the shores of Yemen. In respect for my work there, when I was insulted by an American drunkard, that high ranking member of that tribe had that man removed from country by the Mayor of Ryahd after I left the country to work on a Joint Chiefs of Staff DOD project. He was going to have the man arrested and beaten but I told him not to. As to my friend and students he and many of my other Saudi students told me that they felt that their religion had been taken from them by their fundamentalist religous leaders. They told me that they respected and revered Jesus Christ and wanted peace above all things and that in time peace would come between them and Israel. This from Saudi military officers and leaders of tribes and clans. They also told me they loved music, movies and wanted their daughters and wives to have the same freedoms that the women in the West had. They despised Osama, the fundamentalist Jihad philosophy and the beheadings conducted in their nation. While I was there I showed them what I could do when I ran a nation wide wargame involving thousands of pieces on a game table using nothing but my mind, a wrist watch and experience to control the flow of events and information off of the game board. They never saw anything like it or the tactics I used to destroy a Saudi National Guard Batallion in the Desert in simulated combat. I did it by not leading the national guard company that I drew up the war plan for but by teaching them how to do for themselves. Following that I was invited to go to Mecca under dispensation from the Crown in respect for services rendered in order to look upon it from the mountains above it. This is despite my contributions to helping destroy an Iraqi Army on the Highway of Death. I did not go for a number of reasons, none of which was because I did not respect the religion of Isl*m but were for personal reasons. My friends in Saudi Arabia are educated and feel trapped by the dictates of the religious fanactics that have gained control of the voice of Isl*m. Until such time as they are free to express their views of what their religion should be I still consider Isl*m as practiced by the religious leaders of the Middle east, with few excpetions to be a deviation from the true word of God and the Prophet and having been colored by much man inspired efforts to impart their own spin on the word of God. Ed Chesky | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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