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Ivan
Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 03:20 pm:   

Yazidi sect in north-west Iraq, what do they believe, and why are they persecuted?

Melek_taus.jpg

In this BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6986170.stm , the Yazidi are described:

quote:

KEY FACTS: THE YAZIDIS

  • Religious sect found in northern Iraq, Syria and the Caucasus
  • Number about 500,000 worldwide, but largest number in northern Iraq
  • Doctrine is an amalgam of pagan, Sabean, Shamanistic, Manichean, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian and Islamic elements
  • Yazidis believe in a Supreme God, but do not believe in evil, sin, hell or the devil
  • Violation of divine laws can be expiated by metempsychosis, or the transferring of a soul from one body to another
  • Principal divine figure, Malak Taus (Peacock Angel), is the supreme angel of the seven angels who ruled the universe after it was created by God


Looking up their religious beliefs in Wiki's - Yazidis, we find:

quote:

In the Yazidi worldview, God created the world, which is now in the care of a Heptad of seven Holy Beings, often known as Angels or heft sirr (the Seven Mysteries). Preeminent among these is Melek Taus (Tawϋsκ Melek in Kurdish), the Peacock Angel. According to the Encyclopedia of the Orient, "The reason for the Yazidis reputation of being devil worshipers, is connected to the other name of Melek Taus, Shaytan, the same name the Koran has for Satan"[6]. However, according to the Kurdish linguist Jamal Nebez, the word Taus is most probably derived from the Greek and is related to the words Zeus and Theos, alluding to the meaning of God. Accordingly, Malek Taus is God's Angel, and this is how Yazidis themselves see Melek Taus or Taus-e-Malak[7].
Yazidis believe that Melek Taus is not a source of evil or wickedness. They consider him to be the leader of the archangels, not a fallen angel, and therefore comparable to the Christians' Saint Michael, who is likewise considered the leader of the "seven who stand before the Lord" and of all other good angels. Also, they hold that the source of evil is in the heart and spirit of humans themselves, not in Melek Taus. The active forces in their religion are Melek Taus and Sheik Adξ. The Kitκba Cilwe (Book of Illumination) which claims to be the words of Melek Taus, and which presumably represents Yazidi belief, states that he allocates responsibilities, blessings and misfortunes as he sees fit and that it is not for the race of Adam to question him. Sheikh Adξ believed that the spirit of Melek Taus is the same as his own, perhaps as a reincarnation. He is believed to have said : "I was present when Adam was living in Paradise, and also when Nemrud threw Abraham in fire. I was present when God said to me: "You are the ruler and Lord on the Earth). God, the compassionate, gave me seven earths and throne of the heaven."



As long as their colorful beliefs harm no one else, and they are not pushing their religion on anyone else, what does it matter what they believe? We all have our personal myths of religions, from very ancient ones to modern ones, like from Egyptian-Judaic, or Hindu, to Mormon and Baha'i. Humans need their myths, so the Yazidis, whose origins seem to take in all the other myths, are entitled to live in peace with their own. They are not extremists, rather they suffer at the hands of extremists. But this is what extremists do, they try to control every aspect of your heart and soul, everything from what music you may or may not listen to, to how to wear you hair or cover it, to clothing to what you may think or eat. Extremism is an awful thing for humankind. Communities like the Yazidis must survive. They are the 'canary in the coal mine' of our humanity, as much as Tibetans or any other minority group that are inoffensive to anyone. Extremists through their mind and body controls are offensive to everyone.

Extremism hates religious freedoms because it takes away their power to control. I personally do not believe in the Yazidi myths, but then I do not wish to control and power over them, so I don't care. The evil is not in what they believe but in the extremism that tries to control what we believe. What do 'Extremists' believe in?

Ivan
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Ivan/divine rights
Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 11:06 pm:   

Do 'Extremists' believe in our universal 'Human Rights'?

250px-Hands_of_God_and_Adam.jpg

Here's an article that says we must stand firm against extremist encroachments into our constitutional laws: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?print=yes&id=22269

I personally stand firm on the separation of religion and government in political affairs. Our constitutional laws of freedom stand upright and far above any religiously inspired theocratic laws, which enslave us to some primitive ancient belief system.

Follow societal success on all fronts, from economic to scientific, to educational to artistic, and see which societies are more from God: the theocratic states or freedom states? All who have eyes see the truth of this. We who are free are powerful, while slaves grovel and seethe in their anger. Which world would you want? Beauty exists in the human soul because of our divine nature. Any who would take this from us is anti-divine, against God. Extremists hate the arts and our freedoms, so what does that make them?

Respect for people whose lives live in misery is not a right, it must be earned.

Ivan
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Ivan/belief
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 - 09:09 pm:   

Arrogance against God.


bruegel_blinden.jpg

No one should ever demean what another human being believes in their heart and mind, and soul. There is no practicable nor valid way to ever truly judge another's belief, no matter how asinine or improbable that belief may appear to us, because no one can ever fit into the body and soul of another human being's existence. What that mind has come to believe in the sum total product of an infinite variety of related inputs from birth, and earlier, into that person's total makeup as one living and conscious being is truly their own. That belief is truly between that person and God, and no one else's valid judgment. We may disagree with the other's belief, but it is no reason to abuse them for it. If it offends, then the offended one is at fault here, not the object of offense.

In older times before society became more conscious of its individual members as valuable human beings, people would laugh at deformity, or mental deficiency, or any handicap a person might suffer. We had evolved socially from making fun of hunchbacks or individuals with challenging physical conditions, and today such behavior is considered not only rude and insensitive, but outright morally evil. So we have developed a more humanistic approach to human handicaps, and it is such an approach that must also be developed for any perceived handicaps of faith. If someone believes in something absurd, do not mock them, because this is who they are and what they believe. However, if they offend with this belief to the point of challenging us and being insensitive to our values as human beings, then they must be challenged, because then they are failing to reciprocate in descent human behavior, so they are coercing. No one may condemn or fault another human being for what they believe, same as no one can fault another human being for suffering some physical or mental handicap. That is between them and God. We should never laugh at or otherwise abuse anyone for how they look or what they think, because when we do that we surrender some part of our humanness to this act, in the ways primitive of older times gone by.

The same principle applies to religious beliefs. What makes the extremists of religion particularly cruel is that they not only laugh at another's faith, but will condemn them for it. Further, they then take it upon themselves to place their own misguided aggressive beliefs in between man, or woman, and God. It is as if they have no faith that the greatest living force of the universe, and its greatest possible infinite intellect, is somehow incapable of rectifying for humanity where a person's belief has gone wrong. So what are they saying, in effect? That God is ineffectual? How arrogantly egotistical can one get to believe this? And then to punish others for failing to believe as they do is not only cruel and coercive, but it is a mockery of God, since it says indirectly that God is incapable of managing His (or Hers) domain of human existence in the universe. This is absurdity to the utmost, and this is why religious extremists had been stopped in the past, in most cultures, and will be stopped again now in the remaining cultures where this travesty still exists. To claim someone must die because of how they believe, or worse they must die because they fail to believe, or even turn away from the crushing weight of their inhumane religion and branded with apostasy, is the grossest form of injustice. It is also the grossest form of arrogance against God, because it belittles God to something less than the person taking upon themselves to punish others, allegedly for God. This is a mental feebleness that cannot be tolerated, except as pity, in any society whether it is religious based or not.

What this religious arrogance is lacking is in its humility before God. Most religious persons are infinitely humbled before their faith, because they understand in some moment of enlightenment their own inadequacies before the full beauty and awe of a universe of God. However, the arrogance of extremism does not suffer such humiliation before God. Why? Because in their arrogance they think themselves better than God. And that is ultimately completely false and absurd, which for this they are made ugly and small. This is what must be stopped. Rather than celebrate in the beauty of human kind, they denigrate it to a lower level of physical and mental abuse of others. Such insensitively callous behavior is against God.

Religious extremists may not display this arrogance before God without condemning themselves to a lower status as ignorant and insensitive human beings, deserving not of respect but loathing. The arrogance of religious extremists must be vocally pointed out and condemned as a failure before God to be humbled by His (or Hers) great infinite presence and beauty. Every human being should be duty bound to expose this arrogance, not to make fun of it or abuse it, but to set it right. There is no ground on which any person may stand and claim they are better than God, and thus feel justified in punishing anyone else who does not believe as they do. When they do this, it is a crime against humanity, and for that crime they must be checked and punished by civil law, the humanly agreed upon laws of society. We can all learn to live by agreement easily if we respect each other's rights to believe as we do. This is called religious freedom. But we cannot coexist except through coercive behaviors if our rights to agreement, or disagreement, are trampled by religious extremism. This had been uprooted and disqualified, same as laughing at or abusing human handicaps, in all modern civilized societies. Those who fail to live up to these ideals are primitives, and they must be called on it. Their religious extremist arrogance before God is unconscionable, and it must be stopped, if humanity hopes to move up to the next level of our consciousness; because what is in our heart is between us and God. Each one of us is free to believe, whether or not religiously, as we believe. This is our right as individuals, as individually beautiful souls no matter the handicap, as free human beings, before God.


Ivan
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Friday, September 14, 2007 - 09:56 am:   

I agree with all the posts above. I hope to add an explanation for the belief of the Yazdis.

We see light as white. However under a prism the white light becomes the seven colors of the rainbow.

Islam declares God as light. So the light could be perceived as the seven parts of a single light split into the colors of the rainbow.

This is a conjecture. It is possible that the peacock feathers have all the seven colors and thus it might have been chosen as a symbol.
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Ivan/phobia
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 11:59 am:   

Read Hugh Fitzgerald's superb commentary on "Islamophobia" here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018136.php#comments
(scroll down to see his 27 points)

180px-De_schreeuw_-_oosterpark.jpg
De Schreeuw (The Scream) Memorial commemorating Theo van Gogh and a symbol of the freedom of speech

Here are some by example:

quote:

27) I deplore the fact that slavery is permitted in Islam, that it is discussed in the Qur’an, that it was suppressed in 19th century Arabia only through the influence of British naval power in the Gulf; that it was formally done away with in Saudi Arabia only in 1962; that it still exists in Mali, and the Sudan, and even Mauritania; that it may exist in the Arabian interior, but certainly the treatment of the Thai, Filipino, Indian and other female house workers in Arab households amounts to slavery, and it is no accident that there has never been a Muslim William Wilberforce.

26) I deplore the sentiment that “Islam is to dominate and not to be dominated. “ I deplore the sentiment “War is deception” as uttered by Muhammad. I deplore what has happened over 1350 years, in vast swaths of territory, formerly filled with Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, much of which is now today almost monotonously Islamic. I do not think Islam welcomes any diversity if it means the possibility of full equality for non-Muslims.

25) I deplore the view, in Islam, that it is not a saving of an individual soul that is involved when one conducts Da’wa or the Call to Islam, but rather, something that appears to be much more like signing someone up for the Army of Islam. He need not have read all the fine print; he need not know Islamic tenets; he need not even have read or know what is in sira and hadith or much of the Qur’an; he need only recite a single sentence. That does not show a deep concern for the nature of the conversion (sorry, “reversion”).

...

21) I deplore the attacks on ex-Muslims who often must live in fear. I deplore the attacks on Theo van Gogh and others, and the absence of serious debate about the nature of Islam and of its reform -- except as a means to further beguile and distract Infidels who are becoming more wary.

...

18) I deplore the emphasis on the collective, and the hatred for the autonomy of the individual. In particular, I believe that someone born into Islam has a perfect right to leave Islam if he or she chooses -- and that there should be no punishment, much less the murderous punishment so often inflicted.

...

14) I deplore the ululations of pleasure over acts of terrorism, the delight shown by delighted and celebrating crowds in Cairo, Ramallah, Khartoum, Beirut, Damascus, Baghdad, and of course all over Saudi Arabia, when news of the World Trade Center attacks was known -- and I can, if you wish, supply the reports from those capitals which show this to have taken place. I attribute statements of exultation about the “Infidels” deserving it to the fact that Islamic tenets view the world as a war between the Believers and the Infidels.

...

11) I deplore the Muslim jurisprudence which renders all treaties between Infidels and Muslims worthless from the viewpoint of the Infidels, though worth a great deal from the viewpoint of the Muslims, for they are only signing a “hudna,” a truce-treaty rather than a true peace-treaty -- and because they must go to war against the Infidel, or press their Jihad against the Infidel in other ways, on the model of the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya, no Infidel state or people can ever trust a treaty with Muslims.

10) I deplore the prohibition on sculpture or on paintings of living things. I deplore the horrific vandalism and destruction of Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hindu, and Buddhist sites.

...

4) I find appalling many of the acts which Muhammad committed, including his massacre of the Banu Qurayza, his ordering the assassination of many of those he deemed his opponents, even an old man, a woman, or anyone whom, he thought, merely mocked him.

3) I find appalling the religiously-sanctioned doctrine of taqiyya -- would you like some quotes, sir, about what it is, or would you like to google “taqiyya” and find its sources in the Qur’an?

...



Of course "phobias" of any kind are unsupportable for rational modern human beings, and most who suffer phobias seek psychiatric help. But if a fear or disgust is based upon real evidence, then it is not only rational and sane but necessary for human survival. "Extremists" of any religious belief system are irrational beings, but it is not irrational to fear them with disdain if they cause us harm. Any religion is subject to interpretation by its adherents, but if interpretation is forbidden in advance, and punishable for even questioning it, then it is no longer a belief system but a total repression of the human soul. Extremists want and need to repress us for their control over our lives. That is not "phobia" to fear them. Rather, it is mandatory to stop them, because their extremist beliefs are anti-freedom, inhuman and destructive of the soul. Absolutely no religious belief system may be used this way to repress humanity. Extremists are totally wrong in their interpretations of what they believe. And it is not "phobic" to call them on it and stop them.


Ivan
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 03:24 pm:   

it is no accident that there has never been a Muslim William Wilberforce.
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 11:59 am: Ivan/ phobia

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the William Wilberforce of Muslims. The criticisms on the issue of slavery in Islam is made without reading the 'fine print.' I do not desire to elucidate those here as I am afraid I would be accused of proselytezing.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 03:34 pm:   

He need not have read all the fine print; he need not know Islamic tenets; he need not even have read or know what is in sira and hadith or much of the Qur’an; he need only recite a single sentence. That does not show a deep concern for the nature of the conversion (sorry, “reversion”).
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 11:59 am: Ivan/ phobia

I am reading the translation of the meaning of the Holy Quran from 1963. Even now I find new interpretations. If one were to read all the fine print in Islam before reverting to Islam, that person needs many lives.

Once a person accepts that there is only one God, and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the last Messenger of God, the fine prints are read in an atmosphere of cordiality. To become pious is a lifetime endeavor.

It is the greatest sign of mercy that God recommends to the Muslim army that the enemy assembled in the battlefield to kill the Muslims is invited to Islam and any who reverts is forgiven all the previous crimes and is accepted as a member of the community and protected by the community. This has been perverted to claim that in Islam the non-Muslim is told "either convert or die." In times of peace, a Muslim must live in peace with his non-Muslim neighbors to the tune that he has to share his food with the neighbor in case the neighbor is hungry.
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Ivan
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 05:20 pm:   

I wish it were true, Mohideen

Would you have an explanation why the Yazidi are attacked, as per the OP above?

http://www.humancafe.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=447&post=4031#POST4031

Of course, we may not have the full story on why there are so many crimes against humanity by the Extremists of your faith. I know you are not like that, so why are they? How can they be excused from attacking people of other faiths, or destroying their places of worship, temples and arts, and how can we excuse the recent Korean captives in Afghanistan who were either killed or beaten, told to "convert of die"? These are vexing things to people who know of such things happening all over the world from Phillipines to Thailand, to Indian subcontinent, to the Middle East crescent to North Africa. Why does this happen in the name of Mohammed? Truly vexing, because the real answer is that it should not and need not happen. But it does.

On Apostates of Islam there is a video:

stoning-still.jpg interactive - click on image

(this is the short 4 minute version, but disturbing slow cruel death)

How can this be allowed in the 21st century? What do they believe in, if not Evil itself?
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Ivan/fine print
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 07:56 pm:   

"I know you are not like that, so why are they?" in my above is part of a larger question earlier: "What makes the extremists of religion particularly cruel is that they not only laugh at another's faith, but will condemn them for it. Further, they then take it upon themselves to place their own misguided aggressive beliefs in between man, or woman, and God. It is as if they have no faith that the greatest living force of the universe, and its greatest possible infinite intellect, is somehow (in)capable of rectifying for humanity where a person's belief has gone wrong. So what are they saying, in effect? That God is ineffectual?"

I know that he or she who sincerely humbles their faith before God, or Allah, regardless of their religion, is a personal belief to which they are true in their humility. They believe God is the greatest supreme Being of all existence, and certainly greater than any one person's opinion of how He is supreme. But when any one person takes it upon themselves to interpret belief for another, then that humility before God is shattered. This is the greatest sin against humanity anyone can commit, to shatter another's faith in God. Where is God's supremacy in this sinful interpretation shattering belief? This is not about Islam, but this is about Extremism within Islam.

In my first question above, I acknowledge one man's humility before God, but the Extremists do not. Why are they different? Is it because they know no humility before God, but only their own arrogance to interpret the supreme Being of God for others? And then they feel justified to punish anyone who disagrees with them? Is this not the most fundamental of human coercions against others? This is what sets Extremism apart from religion, from a belief in God, and from moral behavior of natural human beings. Extremists by their FAILURE TO SUBMIT to God, and to COERCE others for God, is what sets them on a path of demonic behaviors towards others. In this is how they are totally wrong in their interpretation of their faith. De facto, Extemists worship themselves above God. Would you agree?

Mohideen, without 'proselytizing' you might perhaps be able to clarify by what 'fine print' these Extremists feel justified in their coercive actions? Much thanks, I value your opinion and reasonable response in advance.

Ivan
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Ivan/teach
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 01:18 am:   

You may or may not answer, Mohideen, but here's a hint.


quote:

Mohideen, without 'proselytizing' you might perhaps be able to clarify by what 'fine print' these Extremists feel justified in their coercive actions?



Remember Quran 2:256, there is no compulsion in religion.

Teach, show by example, instruct with reason, but not compulsion. He who punishes is the one who is wrong.

This is the lesson in life the extremists missed. But maybe there is more...?

Ivan
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Ivan/Moh'sSlaves
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 01:57 am:   

Mohammed condoned slavery.


quote:

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the William Wilberforce of Muslims. The criticisms on the issue of slavery in Islam is made without reading the 'fine print.' I do not desire to elucidate those here as I am afraid I would be accused of proselytezing.



Mohideen, have you forgotten that Mohammed condoned taking slaves, from those not killed, mostly women and children? He then took 20% for himself. Remember he even condones having sex with these females slaves? "What the right hand possesses..."

How is this 'progressive' to condone slavery, and then rape women, not in the 7th century but in the 21st century? Prove me wrong.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 02:40 pm:   

This is the lesson in life the extremists missed. But maybe there is more...?
Posted on Sunday, September 16, 2007 - 01:18 am: Ivan/teach

I agree with your conclusion. Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, demonstrated the Holy Quran by his life. He taught by example.

A computer language is often Context Free. A command means the same whether it is preceded or followed by other commands.

Natural language is Context Sensitive. If I could venture, the extremists have treated the Context Sensitive statements of the Holy Quran and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, as Context Free statements.

Take the case of "Revert or Die" told to the enemy about to fight a Muslim with an intent to kill the Muslim. That statement given the context is a statement of mercy. Remove the context. You have a Muslim and a non-Muslim and the Muslim says to the non-Muslim "Revert or Die." Interpreting the tenets of Islam ignoring the context leads to the behavior displayed by the extremists. This attitude of ignoring the context is demonstrated by even Dr. Robert Spencer of Jihadwatch. How do we make people recognize that natural language is context sensitive?

After the death of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, there were four Caliphs: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and Ali, Allah be pleased with them. They did not indulge in worldly conquest. The fifth Caliph indulged in worldly conquest, fought with Ali, and was instrumental in killing the grandsons of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. After the fifth Caliph some Caliphs indulged in worldly conquest and some followed Islam.

If one looks at the available Islamic literature - often quoted by Dr. Robert Spencer and others - unless we could identify the nature of the author - whether he or she renounced worldly conquest or enjoyed the luxuries of such conquest, the lessons of such a literature is suspect. Unfortunately the information about whether the prior authors favored worldly conquest or not is absent. So we look at the implications of such literature. Any literature that ignores 2:256 of the Holy Quran is suspect.

I am a nobody. In my web I claim that I would follow nothing but the Holy Quran and the authentic Traditions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. I am not alone. There are many Muslims like me. I hope our numbers increase.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 03:40 pm:   

Would you have an explanation why the Yazidi are attacked, as per the OP above?
Posted on Saturday, September 15, 2007 - 05:20 pm: Ivan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6986170.stm
===
Abu Mohammed al-Afri, also known as Abu Jassam, was killed in an air strike on 3 September near the northern city of Mosul, US spokesman Mark Fox said.
===

Why did the Americans kill Abu Mohammed al-Afri? They possibly did it as a deterrent against planning the attack referred to below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6986170.stm
===
Abu Mohammed al-Afri - who was responsible for "the planning and conducting of the horrific attack" against the Yazidis on 14 August - was killed in a coalition air strike 115km (70 miles) south-west of the northern city of Mosul, Rear Admiral Mark Fox told reporters.
===

The reason for planning and conducting the horrific attack of August 14 is known to God and possibly to Abu Mohammed al-Afri. There could be a clue in the following:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6986170.stm
===
Tensions between the Yazidi sect and local Muslims have grown since a Yazidi girl was reportedly stoned by her community in April for converting to Islam.
===

Why did the Yazidi sect stone the girl to death? Is it because the girl became an apostate? If that be so, here are two groups claiming to be Muslims and practicing the stoning to death of an apostate. Who is a real Muslim: the Yazidi or Abu Mohammed al-Afri? By stoning a Muslim simply because the girl embraced Islam have not the Yazidis declared themselves that they would stone each and every Muslim to death, if they have the power? Could it be possible that Abu Mohammed al-Afri did what he did to preserve his community?

Please remember that all the above are possibilities only. The real truth is known to God.
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Ivan/right hand
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 04:59 pm:   

War booty slave girls, "what the right hand possess..."

Thanks Mohideen, I too think it is the Caliphs who somehow took Mohammed's teachings and appropriated them for themselves, for their own ambitions. Whether it was the fifth or not I cannot debate, since that is an article of faith for you, and we are not here to debate religious personal beliefs. And since the original records were destroyed by the Caliphs as to what Mohammed had said and done, there is no credible way to cross check anything about him, except their word for it, which I personally think is corrupted. Perhaps Islam should be called the religion of Caliphaism rather than Mohammedism, but now I am overstepping. Suffice it to say that our concern is not the faith, or what you truly believe whether or not taken in or out of context, but the results of how it affects humanity, especially how this Caliphaist-extremist faith hurts us.

Here is an example of others discussing the issue of SLAVERY of women within Islam: Slave Girls and Their Rights in Islam, this is in response to yours earlier that slavery is 'misunderstood' in your Calipha system. I beg to differ, but that is for you to discuss elsewhere, not here, unless you have PROOF that captured women and children are not made slaves. You might take your discussion on this issue there at Venus Project or elsewhere if you like, since we're not really a religious forum here.

Lastly, the vanquished have another possibility besides death or slavery: they can be set FREE. How many Iraqis or Afghanis had been captured into slavery, sold off, or raped as slaves by Allied forces? How many German women and children, or Japanese women and children, were sold off into slavery at the end of WW II? What happened to the survivors? Servitude as slaves to their master who raped them because "thy right hand possesses"? Or were they set free?

Incase you misunderstand me, the opposite of freedom is slavery. Slavery is against the law -- and taking women and children slaves is also against the Geneva Convention -- but not against the Calipha-sharia-extremism. Would you agree slavery and rape is a violation of women's human rights? Or that marrying 9 year old girls, and then raping them, is also against their human rights? (Not to mention heinously barbaric.) Do extremists of the Calipha support human rights, or slavery? Or, most damning of all, if they are right and Mohammed really did say "what the right hand possesses" then he is the primary extremist and set the standard. Now what? Where do you go from there? Think about it.


Ivan
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Ivan/serious
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 05:19 pm:   

This can get you banned all over again, Mohideen!


quote:

Why did the Yazidi sect stone the girl to death? Is it because the girl became an apostate? If that be so, here are two groups claiming to be Muslims and practicing the stoning to death of an apostate. Who is a real Muslim: the Yazidi or Abu Mohammed al-Afri? By stoning a Muslim simply because the girl embraced Islam have not the Yazidis declared themselves that they would stone each and every Muslim to death, if they have the power? Could it be possible that Abu Mohammed al-Afri did what he did to preserve his community?




Are you fucken insane? How many people did the Yadizi kill? How many did the leader of the the bombings against theYadizi kill? Count the numbers! One girl killed by her own, which is horrible; or 400 killed by Al-Afri to do what, stop a 'Muslim' Yazidi stoning? This response of yours shows your calous disreptect for human life, your blinded religious fanaticism, and your total bias for the Extremist point of view. I am deeply sorry and disappointed in you personally.

One more response like this, Mohideen, and I personally summarily will throw you off this forum from further discussion permanently. I find your response totally brutally insensitive, something I'd expect from an extremist. "Known only to God?" No, it is known to us, and lies do not further this discussion.

Your reponse is vile, and sick!

Are you a Muslim Extremist, Mohideen, doing verbal Jihad here? If so, do not come back.


Ivan
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The Preacher
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:06 pm:   

“Let Him who is without SIN cast the first stone…”

Imagine the scene; Jesus teaches in the temple and goes about His Father’s business
proclaiming the Good News of the Kingdom. The scribes and Pharisees approach Him
with a woman caught in the act of adultery. How they ‘caught’ her we do not know, but
they bring her to Jesus. These teachers of the law did not have the woman’s best interest
in mind, nor Jesus’. They desired to TRAP Jesus. The teachers approach Jesus with a
woman who was caught in the very act of sin - adultery, a crime punished by stoning a
person to death. They were arrogantly prepared for the utter humiliation and devastation
of this Prophet called Jesus. These teachers of the law knew the scriptures, so they recite
to Jesus what the Torah says concerning matters of this magnitude. We are told they
were bent on snaring Jesus, “that they might have something of which to accuse Him”.
(John 8:6)

Instead of mercy, they sought judgment and condemnation, not only for the woman, but
for the Son of God. What does the Son of God do in such a delicate situation? What else
would the Son of God do, but to point out the condition of their heart. He does this by
writing on the ground, which I believe is their names. Before we go too far, let us take a
moment to review the previous day’s events. The prior day was the great day of the Feast
of Tabernacles. To celebrate the feast, all of the people would have observed a water
pouring ceremony, which contained a required reading from the prophet Jeremiah. Part
of the reading, taken from Chapter 17 says, “O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake
You shall be ashamed. ‘Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because
they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.”1 Surely these men would
have not only known this verse in Jeremiah, but the verses would have been fresh in their
minds! As Jesus bent down to write in the sand, I would imagine that they would have
immediately known what He was doing - especially what He was saying by this symbolic
act.

As they continued to test Him, Jesus replies, “He who is without sin among you, let
him throw a stone at her first”. 2 It was then that they began to be convicted, and soon
thereafter left one by one – from the oldest to the youngest. I believe Jesus was not only
exposing their motivations, but also showing them, “you who are older, wiser, and
mature should know better!” I believe they left oldest to youngest because those who
should have known better, did not and possibly Jesus wrote their names starting with
those who were older. We can expect error, misjudgment, and even poor discernment for
those of us that are young in the Lord at times – but for those who are elders?

Now that Jesus dealt with the teachers of the law, what does the Son of God choose to do
with the adulteress? He tells her, recorded in John 8 verse 11, “…go, and sin no more.”
In other words, “change your ways, learn from this, you have been forgiven and cleansed
from all unrighteousness”. He did NOT condemn, judge, rebuke or shame her – He loved
and accepted the sinner, but rejected the sin. Given this, can we as believers do anything
more or less?

200 hundred and more years ago we stoned and burned witches and warlocks at the stake. To day we do not.

Does evil exist. Yes it does. Simple people seek simple answers to the question of why and act routinely in vengence out of ignorance.

The girl referenced in the above was likely stoned to death because she through in her lot with the Muslims that have been persecuting the
Yadizi.

By doing so in the eyes of her community she sided with the people that have killed tens of thousands of Yadizi over the years.

By her act she committed a sin to the Yadizi that equated to those in our society hundreds of years ago that pledged themselves to the occult and Satan out of rebellion against the faith. Most if not the over-whelming majority of those Satanists in the old days were innocent of the crimes they were accused of and were put to date in error. However a few used human and infant sacrifice, sexual debauchery and incest as tools to bind a group together in service to Satan that would be forced to stand together out of fear of reprisal if their crimes came to light.

Today we have matured and only prosecute those who committ such crimes in the name of Satan and similar crimes as criminals based on hard evidence presented before a court of law.

True Christians know that to fight evil you must fight it with words deeds and evidence. The devil as much as would like to make out is not a physical entity that can be stoned to death but something far different. One that must be fought on the spiritual level with spiritual tools like those used by St. Paul and Jesus Christ. As to the agents of Satan, the men and women that pledge themselves to him by the commission of brutal acts of a henious nature. We face them with the full force and fury of secular law. For these men and women moved from the spiritual house of Christ to the one that Christ rejected rulership of when tempted by the devil.

Over the years are laws have evolved to included the teachings of Christ and as such show much compassion and respect for life.
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Ivan
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:25 pm:   


quote:

“Let Him who is without SIN cast the first stone…”



Exactly right Preacher. How many people were put to death by Jesus? By Buddha? By Joseph Smith or Mary Baker Eddy? Or even by Baha'u'llah? None! So why did Mohammed commit the gross spiritual error of killing captives, by his own hand? I believe some 700 were killed this way. There is no comparison, at all, not even closely resembling religion. I blame all this on the Caliphs, but others may see it differently.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:32 am:   

Are you a Muslim Extremist, Mohideen, doing verbal Jihad here? If so, do not come back.
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 05:19 pm: Ivan/serious

You know that I am here to fight the extremists. How could I be one?

I might blame my training as a software designer for some of my posts. A software designer by profession tries many alternatives and hopefully chooses the correct one.

My Ph.D. was to develop a program that identified logical errors in Decision Tables. Two of the most occuring errors were 'Incompleteness' and 'Ambiguity.' By nature I try to complete every decision table. I give the benefit of doubt to even the worst criminal.

See my next post based on the information given by The Preacher.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:35 am:   

As they continued to test Him, Jesus replies, “He who is without sin among you, let
him throw a stone at her first”.
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:06 pm: The Preacher

I have heard about this episode decades back and considered it the best approach to avoid violence. I thought that Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, simply stated that sentence and the crowd melted away.

Thank you so much for detailing the way in which Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, convinced the crowd that he knew their heart and thus they could not lie to him and escape. Because many understand that 'God alone knows the heart.' Of course the Muslims say the All-Knowing God also informs the chosen few a part of His knowledge. Thus my interpretation of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, writing the names (possibly not revealed to other members of the large gathering starting with the oldest) on the sand was by the process of getting inspired by God.

Yes let us hope that God comes to our rescue in our most testing times. Thank you again.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:41 am:   

Dear Ivan,
When I say that God alone knows the heart it is in the spirit of the message given in response to 'The Preacher.'

Pray tell me in a brainstorming session 'are all ideas welcome or only those ideas that the leader accepts?' How do I know what your response (for that matter of any other member) would be until I say that? Remember I am a mere mortal getting inspiration sometimes when I sleep over a tough unsolvable problem like my Ph.D. problem. Alas I do not get inspired while wide awake!
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:48 am:   

How many people were put to death by Jesus?
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:25 pm: Ivan

The Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them was not crucified, that he was raised to Heaven alive, that he would descend just before the end of the world alive, live and then die.

The life of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon him, has three parts: life on earth, life in Heaven, and life on earth. No one has this distinction.

Upon the descent of Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, only the believers would be able to approach him. Any non-believer who is within a distance of the reach of the smell of the Prophet would simply die. Pray could you count the number who would be killed by Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, just through his smell?
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:51 am:   

So why did Mohammed commit the gross spiritual error of killing captives, by his own hand? I believe some 700 were killed this way.
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:25 pm: Ivan

Do you have any authentic evidence to the above statement? If so, kindly enlighten me.
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Ivan
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 09:55 am:   

Jesus was not a killer.


quote:

Upon the descent of Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, only the believers would be able to approach him. Any non-believer who is within a distance of the reach of the smell of the Prophet would simply die. Pray could you count the number who would be killed by Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, just through his smell?



This is a 'hypthetical' issue, as to how many will die in Jesus's presence, so no way to comment on it realisticfally without going off into some potential future myth. The real issue is how many did Jesus kill on Earth?

Remember Jesus healed the sick and lame, not behead them to death. That is a very big major difference, for a man of God.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:11 am:   

So why did Mohammed commit the gross spiritual error of killing captives, by his own hand?
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 06:25 pm: Ivan

Are you referring to some reporting about the event described in the following Tradition?

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=Banu+Quraiza+captives+blood& translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

Why should Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, kill the captives by his own hand when his followers were more than willing to obey him?
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Ivan/killings
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:56 am:   

Prophet said "Kill him."

Mohideen: "Do you have any authentic evidence to the above statement? If so, kindly enlighten me."

Hadiths: Ahih Al Bukhari: Vol. 8, Bk 23, N 795;

quote:

Narrated Anas: The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.



Hadiths: Sira, p367:

quote:

Then he (Kab bin al-Ashraf) composed amatory verses of an insulting nature about the Muslim women. The Apostle said … "Who will rid me of Ibnul-Ashraf?" Muhammad bin Maslama, brother of the Bani Abdu'l-Ashhal, said, "I will deal with him for you, O Apostle of God, I will kill him." He said, "Do so if you can." … "All that is incumbent upon you is that you should try" (said the Prophet to Muhammad bin Maslam). He said, "O Apostle of God, we shall have to tell lies." He (the Prophet) answered, "Say what you like, for you are free in the matter."



Hadiths: Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270;

quote:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Kab bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Kab) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Kab replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.



Hadiths: Sira, p463-4:

quote:

Then they (the tribe of Quraiza) surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of Bani al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy bin Akhtab and Kab bin Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the Apostle they asked Kab what he thought would be done with them. He replied, "Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!" This went on until the Apostle made an end of them.



Hadiths: Volume 3, Book 29, Number 72;

quote:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle entered Mecca in the year of its Conquest wearing an Arabian helmet on his head and when the Prophet took it off, a person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is holding the covering of the Kaba (taking refuge in the Kaba)." The Prophet said, "Kill him."




... I was thinking more about the above, where the Apostle Mohammed orders killings. No other man of God did this.

So in answer to yours, Mohideen:

quote:

Why should Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, kill the captives by his own hand when his followers were more than willing to obey him?


There had been 'interpretations' that Mohammed not only ordered these killings but took hand in them, such as cutting off the hands and feet until they bled to death (in the first above), and that he personally cut off the heads of some of the 700 killed, e.g. ""By Allah it is death!" This went on until the Apostle made an end of them."

Ivan
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 07:23 am:   

Here is an example of others discussing the issue of SLAVERY of women within Islam: Slave Girls and Their Rights in Islam, this is in response to yours earlier that slavery is 'misunderstood' in your Calipha system. I beg to differ, but that is for you to discuss elsewhere, not here, unless you have PROOF that captured women and children are not made slaves. You might take your discussion on this issue there at Venus Project or elsewhere if you like, since we're not really a religious forum here.
Posted on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 04:59 pm: Ivan / right-hand

Thanks for the info.

http://www.venusproject.com/ecs/women_islam/slave_girls_in_islam.html
===
TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE SUBJECT AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF CLICK ON THE BANNER BELOW AND VISIT US AT., FAITH FREEDOM INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION.
===

Accordingly it would not be right for me to argue with 'venusproject.' The referred to link is:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
===
Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed.
===

If ever I need to argue, God willing, I should do so with brother Ali Sina. If and when it is ordained, I hope to do so.

I realize that I cannot mix objectives. Our objective is to 'eliminate war.' If my response to any link given in this forum would further that goal I hope to post the response in my web http://www.deentech.com/ and give the link in this forum. That way, an indirect information would get answered indirectly.

I hope you approve.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 07:39 am:   

There had been 'interpretations' that Mohammed not only ordered these killings but took hand in them, such as cutting off the hands and feet until they bled to death (in the first above), and that he personally cut off the heads of some of the 700 killed, e.g. ""By Allah it is death!" This went on until the Apostle made an end of them."
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:56 am: Ivan/killings

As indicated earlier the deviation from the true teachings of Islam started with the fifth Caliph. A lot of literature was created by those Muslims who believe that the fifth Caliph and the like are correct. I do not think it is meaningful to refute wrong literature. Wrong literature is best ignored.

God claims that He protects His words. The Muslims believe the Holy Quran is the Word of God. The only authentic interpretation of the Holy Quran is the collected authentic Traditions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. In my site I had indicated already one inauthentic Tradition found in the canonical collections of Traditions accepted by Muslims. Thus unless the quoted information passes the test of consistency, I do not plan to refute such information. I might indicate my reasons for not discussing a piece of information provided.

Some believe in Sira, the life history of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. The status of life history is of a level below that of a Tradition. Because the life history is the record of another person's understanding of the life of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Hence I do not respond to quotes from Sira.

God willing, I hope to verify the other quotes and give my response, not for the sake of argument but to wean the common Muslim from the wrong interpretation given by the war mongers among Muslims.
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Ivan
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 09:56 am:   

Bukhari translation on Banu Quraiza captives's fate:
http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=Banu+Quraiza+captives+&trans lator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

Here is what it says:

quote:

The words "Banu Quraiza captives" appear in 2 hadith(s) in Bukhari translation.
(1) Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The people of (Banu) Quraiza agreed to accept the verdict of Sad bin Mu'adh. So the Prophet sent for Sad, and the latter came (riding) a donkey and when he approached the Mosque, the Prophet said to the Ansar, "Get up for your chief or for the best among you." Then the Prophet said (to Sad)." These (i.e. Banu Quraiza) have agreed to accept your verdict." Sad said, "Kill their (men) warriors and take their offspring as captives, "On that the Prophet said, "You have judged according to Allah's Judgment," or said, "according to the King's judgment."  (Book #59, Hadith #447)

(2) Narrated 'Aisha: Sad was wounded on the day of Khandaq (i.e. Trench) when a man from Quraish, called Hibban bin Al-'Araqa hit him (with an arrow). The man was Hibban bin Qais from (the tribe of) Bani Mais bin 'Amir bin Lu'ai who shot an arrow at Sad's medial arm vein (or main artery of the arm). The Prophet pitched a tent (for Sad) in the Mosque so that he might be near to the Prophet to visit. When the Prophet returned from the (battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and laid down his arms and took a bath Gabriel came to him while he (i.e. Gabriel) was shaking the dust off his head, and said, "You have laid down the arms?" By Allah, I have not laid them down. Go out to them (to attack them)." The Prophet said, "Where?" Gabriel pointed towards Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sad to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed." Narrated Hisham: My father informed me that 'Aisha said, "Sad said, "O Allah! You know that there is nothing more beloved to me than to fight in Your Cause against those who disbelieved Your Apostle and turned him out (of Mecca). O Allah! I think you have put to an end the fight between us and them (i.e. Quraish infidels). And if there still remains any fight with the Quraish (infidels), then keep me alive till I fight against them for Your Sake. But if you have brought the war to an end, then let this wound burst and cause my death thereby.' So blood gushed from the wound. There was a tent in the Mosque belonging to Banu Ghifar who were surprised by the blood flowing towards them . They said, 'O people of the tent! What is this thing which is coming to us from your side?' Behold! Blood was flowing profusely out of Sad's wound. Sad then died because of that."  (Book #59, Hadith #448)


I don't know how authentic or not these traditions are, nor how to interpret them, since these are articles of faith for the believers. But for us looking in from outside, it looks blood thirsty and extremist. Though it is not our problem until the attacks turn from inwardly to outwardly into the world at large, for then it threatens our freedoms and way of life.

"Kill their (men) warriors and take their offspring as captives" is not acceptable behavior in civilized modern society. Let their Jihad be an 'internal' struggle for their bloody world, not ours. We find slavery unacceptable, as it is the worst form of human coercion possible. Keep them out of our societies.

Ivan
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Ivan/smite
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 07:40 pm:   

Quran 8:12, smite their necks and cut off fingers, which is extremely painful... not love as taught by other religions.

Mohideen: "God claims that He protects His words. The Muslims believe the Holy Quran is the Word of God. The only authentic interpretation of the Holy Quran is the collected authentic Traditions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him."

The text says:

quote:

When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
( Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #12)



So it is not merely the Hadiths that demand blood, but also the most holy book of Islam. Extremists take these text for face value.

This is only one example, there are more. To 'smite' others is not religion but militarism.
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Ivan/namaste
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 07:52 pm:   

Namaste.

250px-Indian_sadhu_performing_namaste.jpg
A sadhu performing namaste (interactive)

Contrast the discussed above to the old Hindu religion, where "namaste" is a greeting of worship in the god within you. This is the "Who" you are, that is honored in the word "namaste", or more formally "namaskar". The term says it all. You as a human being are valuable, not because some religious master demands your submission, but because God made you valuable. That is the essence of Freedom: The Who you are is valuable. This is not what Extremists believe in their "salaam aleikom" which is reserved not for all humanity, but only those who had "submitted" to their belief, which is exclusionary of the rest of (infidel) humanity. Some Extremists believe it is actually 'wrong' to say "salaam aleikom" to non-believers. Contrast the two.

Namaste to me is the pure truth of all life, that we must worship the god in us, because this is Who we are. It is this purity of being inside each and everyone one of us that must be brought to the surface, not just in word, but in deed.

Ivan
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Ivan
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 02:16 am:   

How do we eliminate war?

We believe in ourselves, in our lives on this Earth as sacred, in God as the whole universe, and in universal freedom for all humanity.

Do through agreement and shun doing through disagreement, or coercion, and war is ended. Not deceit but truth, in all interhuman dealings.

This is the 'given word'. Period.

Ivan
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 10:43 am:   

Hadiths: Volume 3, Book 29, Number 72;

-------------------------------------------------
quote:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle entered Mecca in the year of its Conquest wearing an Arabian helmet on his head and when the Prophet took it off, a person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is holding the covering of the Kaba (taking refuge in the Kaba)." The Prophet said, "Kill him."
-------------------------------------------------
... I was thinking more about the above, where the Apostle Mohammed orders killings. No other man of God did this.
Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 10:56 am: Ivan/killings

Thanks for giving the reference. It took me a few days to analyze the above. The result of the analysis is posted in
http://deentech.com/MI_IC_Correct_Interpretation_of_Bukhari_29_72.aspx
===
Here is an example of a mistake in translation causing violence. We thank Ivan for bringing this issue to our notice. Quoting from
http://www.humancafe.com/discus/messages/447/498.html?1190269008#POST4094 we have: ...

Ibn Khatal was hanging on to the curtain to protect the idols stored inside the Kaaba. The very purpose of the mission of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was to unite the people divided by loyalties to the idols. If Ibn Khatal was allowed to protect the idols by claiming protection under 2:191 of the Holy Quran it would have been the worst perverse exploitation. Naturally Ibn Khatal was killed so that the idols could be taken out. Please notice that – taking refuge in the Ka’ba – is given within parentheses in the translation implying that these words were inserted by the translator by way of explanation. The correct translation would be without the parentheses and thus our interpretation is the correct one. Ibn Khatal was protecting the idols and was not seeking protection of the Masjid. There were many who sought protection of the Masjid and they were not harmed. So Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, simply ordered an enemy warrior to be killed.
===

So if any Muslim or anyone kills a person who has sought refuge in Kaaba - irrespective of the religion of the person - such killing is equivalent to the killing of all mankind. By extension the killing of any person inside a house of worship is a sin.
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 01:25 pm:   

This is not what Extremists believe in their "salaam aleikom" which is reserved not for all humanity, but only those who had "submitted" to their belief, which is exclusionary of the rest of (infidel) humanity.
Posted on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 07:52 pm: Ivan/namaste

The following URL is linked to the picture in the above post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaste

Quoting from the above URL, we have:
===
In some parts of India (for example, Punjabi-speaking areas), Namaste is used only to greet Hindus. The proper greeting for Muslims and Sikhs being Assalamu Alaikum and Sat Sri Akaal respectively.
===

The Sikhs fought the Muslim rulers in the undivided India. I quote from two web pages before an interesting observation at the end.

http://hindutva.org/sikhism.html
===
The transformation of Sikhism as the Khalsa Panth was formally launched by Guru Gobind Singh Ji on Baishakhi (New year) day in the year 1699. The new community was termed the Khalsa Panth or the 'Pure Sect' as its followers were required to be far more strict in observing the tenets of their reformed faith. The followers of the Khalsa were required to observe five visible symbols of membership. These signs as we know were: 1) Unshorn Hair (Kesha), 2) A curved dagger (Kirpan), 3) A comb (Kangva), 4) A steel bangle (Kada), 5) A pair of shorts (Kachha). All members of the Khalsa were required to suffix their name with the term 'Singh' meaning 'lion'. Guru Gobind Singh's aim in forming the Khalsa Panth was to build up a militarized community which could resist Mughal oppression.
===

http://waheguru.tribe.net/thread/fbcff900-f81b-4528-a5d0-780eae7c970b
===
April 1, 2005 - 12:18 PM
... In my Hindu family, the eldest son was made into a sikh since a long time.

April 2, 2005 - 6:17 PM
Many Hindus refuse to acknowledge Sikhism as a separate religion, and
instead insist that Sikhs are just a sect of Hinduism. At one time it was
common for the eldest son in a Hindu family to be raised as a Sikh--
especially during the period of British rule in India (before 1947). I
genuinely doubt whether many Hindus still do this--especially after 1984.
===

Observation: Both Muslims and Sikhs have exclusive greetings. Why?
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Ivan
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 12:48 am:   

Dear Mohideen, I like your interpretation better than what the translations say, since it is more sensible and humane.

If the original is in Arabic, ancient Arabic, and all peoples subsequently conquered by Arabs into Islam are not truly qualified to interpret such ancient texts into modern language, then who knows really what they were meant to say? Alas, this is a dilemma of the faith, not here our concern. Arab linguistic supremacism is an internal matter for the believers, not for us to challenge.

You said:

quote:

Ibn Khatal was hanging on to the curtain to protect the idols stored inside the Kaaba. The very purpose of the mission of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was to unite the people divided by loyalties to the idols. If Ibn Khatal was allowed to protect the idols by claiming protection under 2:191 of the Holy Quran it would have been the worst perverse exploitation. Naturally Ibn Khatal was killed so that the idols could be taken out. Please notice that – taking refuge in the Ka’ba – is given within parentheses in the translation implying that these words were inserted by the translator by way of explanation. The correct translation would be without the parentheses and thus our interpretation is the correct one. Ibn Khatal was protecting the idols and was not seeking protection of the Masjid. There were many who sought protection of the Masjid and they were not harmed. So Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, simply ordered an enemy warrior to be killed.


This seems a sensible explanation, that an 'idol worshipper' was slaughtered for protecting the idols. However, this debate must be taken from here to the religious clerics of the faith who debate such things. We are powerless to improve on it here, since it is an internal affair of the faith. My point in my above is to show that killing was ordered by the Prophet, to which I do not believe anyone can argue otherwise. But this is not our business to argue as to whether or not it was justified, since that is an internal matter of Islam, and its believers.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge here with us.

Ivan
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 07:10 am:   

But this is not our business to argue as to whether or not it was justified, since that is an internal matter of Islam, and its believers.
Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 12:48 am: Ivan

Thanks. I hope to address the Muslims regarding the interpretation by expanding the argument. God willing, I would be happy to mark a copy of that email to you for your personal information. The post here could be used by friends of Muslims to impress on their friendly Muslims that the Muslims are not to indulge in wanton killings of the innocent along with the guilty. Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, permitted the killing of just one non-Muslim and not the many others assembled in the Kaaba.

We hope there would be exchanges between Muslims and non-Muslims in addition to inter-Muslim dialogues to banish war.
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Ivan/dialogue
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:26 am:   

Call off Jihad, and then we talk -- Not hudna but real peace.


quote:

We hope there would be exchanges between Muslims and non-Muslims in addition to inter-Muslim dialogues to banish war.



The solution to this conflict is the simplest in the world: Call off Jihad against 'non-believers' -- and have Muslim immigrants in western countries assimilate their values with those of the West: with tolerance for all cultures equally, especially freedom of speech and freedom of religious belief, including freedom from harm for disbelief; and the equality of men and women for all. If they can do that, dialogue is constructive to better understanding between cultures. If not, then why are they here? And if this is the question, then the war started by the Extremist jihadis is only begun. (The alternative to this war is for us to 'submit-surrender' to a 'peaceful jihad' which is unacceptable for a free people.) Be prepared for a very long and tough fight, since the enemy is already within. To banish war will be needed to vanquish the enemy entirely into absolute submission to our values of freedom, and constitutional government protecting rights of individuals. Understand this is the line drawn. Nothing less is acceptable.

Ivan
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Ivan/regrets
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 02:30 am:   

Irreconcilable differences of culture and our core values, three weeks on.

Mohideen, I had been reviewing your posts since September 1st, and find your views contrary to our core beliefs in freedom, as well as being surreptitiously anti-American, so must question as to why you are posting here? For what purpose? Would you not be more effective elsewhere? This is not to blame you personally, but to call you on your inherent ideology driving your posts, which shows your disagreement with our core values.

Here is a roster of some of yours, my assessment capitalized;
SEPARATION OF RELIGION AND GOVERNMENT - UNACCEPTABLE
1. I recommend the integration of good Church with good State.
2. I oppose the integration of good Church with evil State because the evil State would exploit the good Church to the detriment of common good.
3. I oppose the integration of evil Church with good State likewise as the evil Church would influence the good State to evil actions.
4. I oppose the integration of evil Church and evil State as I believe that would be the worst tyranny.

By rejecting the dogma induced reasoning we lose.

***
FALSE THEOLOGY
Although the Israelis and Americans use their own “terrorist theology” ...
===

I am sure we don't want any of this theology. Or do we?

***
FALSE VICTORY
Please note that the device is 'Russian-made.' We did not win over communism. We simply overpowered it with weapons. Had we engaged communism in debate and convinced the population of USSR and her satellites that our way of life is better we would have really buried communism.

***
WHAT? IRRATIONAL
The most successful attack by an enemy is one where the victim thinks the event is 'natural.' I believe the current weather in USA is not natural but we are led to believe so.

***
ISRAELI 'CONSPIRACY'
Such tactics in dissimulation are bound to backfire. Once Israeli Elite Forces disguise themselves as Hamas militia and act inside Gaza, one cannot rule out the possibility of the next trigger for a war between Hamas and Israel being the act of Israeli Elite Forces themselves.

In future Hamas could pass off some of its own attacks as initiated by Israel inside Gaza.

***
SLAVERY ACCEPTED
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the William Wilberforce of Muslims. The criticisms on the issue of slavery in Islam is made without reading the 'fine print.' I do not desire to elucidate those here as I am afraid I would be accused of proselytezing.

***
DA'WA EXTENDED
It is the greatest sign of mercy that God recommends to the Muslim army that the enemy assembled in the battlefield to kill the Muslims is invited to Islam and any who reverts is forgiven all the previous crimes and is accepted as a member of the community and protected by the community.

***
'TAQIYYA' OR CONFUSION
Take the case of "Revert or Die" told to the enemy about to fight a Muslim with an intent to kill the Muslim. That statement given the context is a statement of mercy. Remove the context. You have a Muslim and a non-Muslim and the Muslim says to the non-Muslim "Revert or Die."

***
WICKED SICK REASONING
By stoning a Muslim simply because the girl embraced Islam have not the Yazidis declared themselves that they would stone each and every Muslim to death, if they have the power? Could it be possible that Abu Mohammed al-Afri did what he did to preserve his community?

***
INSULTING TO CHRISTIANS
Upon the descent of Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, only the believers would be able to approach him. Any non-believer who is within a distance of the reach of the smell of the Prophet would simply die. Pray could you count the number who would be killed by Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, just through his smell?

***
ERROR ON HISTORY
Why should Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, kill the captives by his own hand when his followers were more than willing to obey him?

***
EVASION ON SIRA
Some believe in Sira, the life history of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. The status of life history is of a level below that of a Tradition. Because the life history is the record of another person's understanding of the life of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Hence I do not respond to quotes from Sira.

***
IRRELEVANT DISTINCTION
Observation: Both Muslims and Sikhs have exclusive greetings. Why?

***
VAGUE DEFINITION OF 'GUILT'
The post here could be used by friends of Muslims to impress on their friendly Muslims that the Muslims are not to indulge in wanton killings of the innocent along with the guilty. Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, permitted the killing of just one non-Muslim and not the many others assembled in the Kaaba.

***
INSINUATED ACCUSATION ON OUR AMERICAN VALUES
We do need and support 'freedom of speech,' but there is no comparable 'freedom of action.' The passage of the bill and its instant implementation would help America regain the moral authority lost elsewhere if not inside USA itself.

You might notice that for each of your ideas posted there followed not a discussion but a rebuttal. This is not right, so we must conclude that we have irreconcilable ideological differences. For this reason, I must ask you to not post further here, as these differences are too deeply ingrained to serve any useful function on this forum. There are bigger and broader ideas to be explored than those of ideologies inherently hostile to our American values and way of life. Freedom is a serious responsibility which cannot be lightly glossed over with ideas that insidiously seek to undermine those freedoms. Your choice of references speak for themselves, that they are insipidly hostile to our values, and generally anti-Western culture, and derogatory of America.

Therefore, you are being asked to take your discussions elsewhere where they may be better received than here. Already some had deserted this site for this reason, that dialogue was debased with rebuttals rather than discussion, and this cannot be acceptable. There is nothing furthered by your participation here, so it ends. Good luck, with no ill will, and may you find it more rewarding to participate in other forums with your ideas. This forum is now closed to you. Regrets.


Respectfully, Ivan

(this discussion remains open)
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Mohideen Ibramsha
Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   

I did not read the above before responding regarding General Petraeus. I am sorry that I responded there.

Well I offered to work with you to find a way to eliminate war. Thank you for tolerating me for the past three weeks.

To you your way and to me my way.

I did send one email regarding another topic. Kindly ignore that email.

Good Bye!!!
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Ivan
Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 01:45 am:   

Good luck Mohideen. I hope you find what you are looking for. Change is a good thing, even internal personal change. Perhaps this time next year you will be a new man. It was good to have your here, thank you. New horizons will open. God Bless. Ivan
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Ivan/unity
Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 12:25 pm:   

An alternative to Islamic-extremism.
"Doctrine of Ismailism" BY DR. SHEIKH KHODR HAMAWI

In Ismailis the whole universe was seen as a unified interrelated entity starting with God the creator, who is the absolute, perfection (50), and purity, and ending with matter which is the highest level of divisibility, and imperfection. In between, the whole universal phenomena were arranged in such as order that the more perfect (51) and the more universal they are the higher, the position they reach towards God. The more imperfect and less universal they are lover the position they occupy towards matter is the last degree of passivity it lacks universality and perfection. But it is important to note that matter for Ismailis,especially during the Fatimide period, was completely immaterial thing. Its material properties are illusion of the senses and have no existence outside the senses, e.g. colour has no material existence in itself and is only the product of sight.

Therefore, all properties of matter are ideas existing in the mind, and each one of these material properties, taken by itself, cannot be anything but idea; none of them can formulate a material body by self solidity which cannot exist without hardness. colour, softeners (52)... etc, which make the matter as it is, not one of these properties existing outside the mind and inside the matter itself. This immaterial idea of matter is very important in Ismaili cosmogony...

With a plan of action by Ismailists:
Implementation of Faith by Action

The real aim of religion, is the good action in being useful to others, and not only in repeating prayers (66)...

Islam means not only faith but is also means works. It means creating the world in which you can practise your faith to the best of your ability.

In short, all the religious articles of faith and rites are means and not ends in themselves, because the end is the good deed, they good word, and the progress and elevation of human society and of the individual within that society...

1- UNITY OF THE UNIVERSE:

The whole universe, including God, is one interrelated entity.

God's existence is the Existence in Power which is rendered complete by the Existence in Action (the human existence), and by the establishment of the link between these two tapes of existence, because the establishment of this link is the true Monotheistic knowledge.

This was explained very clearly by the Prophet in his Heavenly Tradition:"I was a hidden treasure; I wanted to be known; I created creatures; I made them know me; Through them I am known".

2- THE GREATNESS OF MAN:

The Ismaili doctrine holds that life began with human existence, and this made man the axis of everything. This is emphasized inthe following sayings by Ikhwan As-Safa, already cited:

"Do you Man, think that you are a small thing, while in you is involved the Great Universe".

They also say "Man approaches the limits of Divinity by attaining the best and most perfect"...

5- THE UNITY OF RELIGIONS:

Religious doctrines and Philosophies, old and modern have in the Ismaili faith their common denominator, because within the scope of this faith, there is room for all sects beliefs and ideas.

all religions are one in essence, because all of them have one aim which is the adhesion to the sublime ideals and the imitation of God as much as human capacity permits. (Ikwan As Safa).
....
7-HUMAN LOVE:

Prophet Muhammad said:

No man is a true believer unless he desires for others what he desires for himself.

Yes, Muhammad, but not through conquest, but through love, as the Goldern Rule applies.

Now contrast these two divergent ideologies for establish a universal doctrine of tolerance, peace, and human love. Compare this to Ikhwan. We must be free to choose, if being human in the universe of God has meaning.

Which would a good reasonable person choose, if of the Islamic faith?
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Ivan/interrelated
Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 09:54 am:   

Ismailism differs from Habeas Mentem:


quote:

Therefore, all properties of matter are ideas existing in the mind, and each one of these material properties, taken by itself, cannot be anything but idea; none of them can formulate a material body by self solidity which cannot exist without hardness. colour, softeners (52)... etc, which make the matter as it is, not one of these properties existing outside the mind and inside the matter itself. This immaterial idea of matter is very important in Ismaili cosmogony...

The whole universe, including God, is one interrelated entity.



In this quote from above we can see a fundamental difference with Habeas Mentem's "interrelated" reality of mind. The order is reversed. Where Ismailism sees mind as primary, thus the universal interrelated reality starts with man's mind, in Habeas Mentem the interrelated reality starts with the universe's Mind, not man's, so that human beings are evolved living species that can pick up on this ability of connecting with universal mind. This is a subtle but very important distinction between both ideas. They may appear similar on the surface, but that is illusion. The reality is not inside man's mind but in the Mind of the universe, which is a product of a totally interrelated infinity of all existence, a living reality of God. Man's mind has the gift of being able to connect with universal mind, but only truly when we are "in the mind", which is what means habeas mentem, to have the mind. Coercion (and deceit, false ideas) destroys that link, which is why loss of freedom is so painful to us, and unnatural in God.

Ivan
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Ivan/Ahmad jihad
Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   

Iran does not ignore 'gays', they kill them.


quote:

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's seemingly ridiculous claim that "we don't have homosexuals, like in your country" masks the cruel reality that his government does far worse than ignore gays, human rights groups charge.



0925071153_M_092507_hanged_teens6.jpg
Two Iranian teens hanged for homosexuality.

This is from the same country of the same man at his UN speech who said Iran has no 'homosexuality' in his country. Now who would believe him when he says: From Fox News: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 'Nuclear Issue of Iran Is Now Closed'

quote:

"Previously, they illegally insisted on politicizing the Iranian nation's nuclear case, but today, because of the resistance of the Iranian nation, the issue is back to the agency, and I officially announce that in our opinion the nuclear issue of Iran is now closed and has turned into an ordinary agency matter," Ahmadinejad said.

Iran has decided "to pursue the issue through its appropriate legal path ... and to disregard unlawful and political impositions by the arrogant powers," he said.



Who would believe him? They kill and then deny human rights for their own people, so why would anyone accept exposing the rest of the world to their reign of terror? We cannot trust him one iota. The "arrogant powers" he talks about with his lies is his own extremist Sharia government. Mohammed said "war is deceit".

He pulls out his earpiece before Bush talks (though he understands English very well) in defiance:

quote:

Amadinejad, whose speech at Columbia University on Monday provoked widespread protests, was in the General Assembly chamber for Bush's speech. A U.N. diplomat in the chamber said the Iranian president listened to the secretary-general but pulled out his earpiece before Bush started to speak.

Asked about the protests and tough questions he faced at Columbia, Ahmadinejad told a press conference late Tuesday that he didn't find it to be difficult.

"In my opinion, it wasn't hard," he said. "I speak of my opinions and say what I need to say and others speak of theirs. After all, we are patient enough to listen to what even groups that are hostile to us say. Even if it's intentional or based on misinformation, or even when it's filled with claims and allegations and even insults."



The "insults" are entirely his. He lies, about women's rights, about freedom of conscience in his country, about homosexuality in Iran, about his nuclear ambitions, about his threats to Israel and America (which he denies now), about the Holocaust, even about his grilling by Bollinger at Columbia University. Every word uttered by that odious man is a lie, his intentions are pure deception.

So is anything said by him of any worth at all? Why did he come to speak? To lie to us? His evil is extreme, as is his Islamic extremism. He should never be allowed back into the U.S.A. We are a land of freedom, not lies of extremism. The "nuclear issue" is not closed at all.


quote:

Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told Fox News that Ahmadinejad should not have been invited to address the General Assembly.

"Ahmadinejad is expanding a fanatic doctrine of genocide. He is developing nuclear weapons to achieve it. He is denying the Holocaust. Imagine someone who denied that slavery existed and they want to knock an African nation off the map. You would not invite them," he said.


Hear hear!

Ivan
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Ivan/imam shot
Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 10:13 am:   

Muslim imam speaks against Islamic extremism is shot dead.

MoscowTimes.com


quote:

MAKHACHKALA -- Gunmen killed an imam on his way to morning prayers in Dagestan on Saturday, a day after he spoke out against Islamic extremists, police said.

Nurmagomed Gadzhimagomedov was shot by attackers in a car while walking from his home to his mosque in the Dagestani settlement of Gudben, district police chief Sergei Makukha said.

Gadzhimagomedov, a vocal critic of Islamic extremism, had spoken out against militants during a service at the mosque on Friday, Makukha said. He said the killing was "clearly a revenge attack" by Islamic militants. (AP



Any wonder most Muslims against violent jihad stay quiet? They are afraid of their own killing them for their 'religion of peace'. Dare speak out, or dare leave the faith of the 'true believers' and see what happens -- if Allah is all understanding and forgiving, the leaving the faith should garrantee a place in paradise, not only in the next life, but in this one too, if you survive the violent threats.

But that's not what Ash'ari (Sharia) Islam believes, is it?
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Ivan/Isl.of.peace
Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 10:40 pm:   

"Islam Is Peace." -- Is it? Or isn't it?

Fitzgerald wrote one more excellent essay to delve into the mystery. Let the reader decide if Islam is an 'island' of peace in a troubled world, or perhaps is troubled in a 'peaceful' world. How do we end "Islamophobia" if it really truly is peace? What do the 'Extremists' believe?

_44153995_remosque_416_ap.jpg
'Monolithic' Islam - or not? (interactive) #6

Here are some excerpts, Fitzgerald:
"Now let's all imagine that we are Muslims, Believers living in the West. Muslims are not "monolithic," we are told. No. You may come from Pakistan and I from Somalia, and someone is here from Algeria, and someone else from Yemen, and so on. But we all share the same faith, a faith that is a religion, a politics, an economics, a system of artistic censorship, a guide to personal hygiene, a manual of etiquette, a guide to Dealing With Non-Muslims, a clothing manual, a guide to what are the permissible limits of thought and especially of thought about Islam and Muhammad, and so on. It's a Total System. It is unrecognized as such by most Infidels because what they know of as religion, what they think of as religion, is not a Total System.

And while Christianity is the other faith that makes universalist claims, it has not always, and certainly does not now, push those claims incessantly everywhere there are Christians. It does not think it right and proper to use violence against all those who resist the complete domination of Christianity or who choose to leave the faith. It does not regulate every area of life. It does not contain a politics ("it renders unto Caeser what is Caesar's") or a geopolitics. As for other faiths, while in Hinduism and Judaism informed converts are welcome, there is no campaign equivalent to Da'wa, nor is there anything like the Total System or violence of Islam. Islam seeks the uninformed convert, the person who really doesn't know the full story of Islam, but who is inveigled into reciting the Shahada, told he is now a Muslim, and then by slow degrees is taken carefully in hand and made much of by Muslims who watch his every move and guide his every step.
...
Think for a minute and imagine yourself a Muslim living in the West. You too would wish to convince others that "Jihad" has nothing to do with violence, and is in fact a struggle against "oppression" and "injustice." This will be taken, you know, by non-Muslims to mean whatever it is they mean when they use the words “injustice” and “oppression.” And who could be for, rather than against, “injustice” and “oppression”? Whereas Muslims know exactly what, in Islam, these words mean: they mean all the attempts by non-Muslims to put up obstacles to the spread, and ultimate dominance, of Islam. That is what, for a billion Muslims, constitutes “oppression” and “injustice.” That is what they are fighting against in Great Britain. They are fighting against it right now through their islamispace campaign, with those glossy pictures on the side of the busses, and those expensive television ads, and all the rest of it.

Yes, they are conducting Jihad. They are attempting to befog the minds of non-Muslims, to confuse them, to prevent them from beginning to look at Islam steadily and whole. They are attempting to prevent them from learning the truth about its tenets and attitudes, its history, and the present behavior, everywhere that Muslims exist in numbers sufficient to attempt to impose their will, whether in the Lands of the Infidel, the Dar al-Harb or “House of War,” or in the already Muslim-dominated Dar al-Islam, which is now the House of Peace. It is the House of Peace because, you see, there is no need for war once Islam triumphs -– which of course isn’t quite true, because then there are those remaining pesky non-Muslims to discriminate against, to harry, to humiliate, to degrade, to render physically insecure, to do everything possible either to drive them out, or to keep them from multiplying or serving as an attractive and therefore dangerous example to the Muslims around them.

We are in a war. ..." (link mine)


BBC News story is here on the campaign to convince the British public skeptical of this claim. Will they be believed? Or will the Extremists be believed? Do words speak louder than deeds? Let the reader judge, and decide.

We who are skeptical have only five questions of "Islam is Peace":
  • Is death for heretics and apostates in Islam an error?
  • Is Allah bound by reason and the laws of the universe?
  • Are 'unbelievers' the same under the law of Sharia as 'believers' equally?
  • Is the division between 'dar-al-Harb' and 'dar-al-Islam, which must be united an error, a fiction?
  • Can Allah abrogate the Quran, to invalidate all the violent passages, with peaceful ones?

If any Muslim can answer "yes" to all five, then the answer is clear. But if he, or she, cannot..?


You the reader decide, as a free human being is free to decide. If you are skeptical, read deeply into all that was written in the Hadiths and Siras, as well as the Quran: http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/index.html

You decide.
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Ivan/Saudi law
Posted on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 09:31 am:   

Saudi Arabia to Modernize Courts System?

BBC New: Saudis to overhaul legal system


quote:

The reforms, by royal decree, will lead to the creation of a supreme court, an appeals court and new general courts to replace the Supreme Judicial Council.

Reformers have welcomed the measures, which they say will improve human rights and help modernise the country.



This is, at least in theory, a positive step towards an eventual 'reform' of how Sharia is interpreted in the Islamic world. Can freedom enter, and human rights observed equally for all people under Sharia? That is a long question, and until the division created within the Quran and Hadiths between 'believers' and 'unbelievers' is eliminated, progress will be slow, if not impossible. But at least it is a small step towards bringing Islam into the modern world, not as conquest but as adaptation to those social and human values that have made us great. God willing, they may yet see the light and evolve beyond the 9th century, by invalidating all the violently coercive passages.

Ivan
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Ivan/mono
Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 03:21 pm:   

Only an 'imperfect' God can talk to us.

137px-Tetragrammaton_scripts.svg.png (interactive)
YHWH, the name of God or Tetragrammaton, in Phoenician (1100 BC to AD 300), Aramaic (10th Century BC to 1st century AD) and modern Hebrew scripts.

This is in reference to a post earlier, Does God need to talk to us?, where the reason God will not talk to us is because it makes an 'omnipotent God' an oxymoron. Read it there, to see why the ancient monotheists missed this very important condition of God's perfection. The Extremists are missing this very important point, in carrying out God's word for Him, or Her, because they are violating the omnipotence of God. Their belief is a gross error, in that by claiming to be carrying out God's (Allah's) word as revealed by Mohammed, they are betraying that theirs is an imperfect 'God'.

You cannot have it both ways, a perfect God and one that needs to be corrected. It does not work. Allah karim (God provides) may work out (mostly through hard work and intelligence), but Inshallah (God willing) does not, unless one thinks God is less than willing. We are God's Will with every nanosecond of our existence, and if God needs to correct that, then He was an imperfect god. The presumption that men can then improve on God is not only highly egotistical, but absurd. Any human who presumes to do God's work for Him makes his 'God' less, or worse insignificant, a lowly pagan god.

God is, and nothing less.


Ivan
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Ivan/dialogue
Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 07:13 pm:   

Muslims Scholars Reach out to Christian Church leaders.

_42127722_meeting_story_ap.jpg
Christians and Muslims should reject violence, equally

In this BBC News, "Muslim scholars reach out to Pope", there is a link to the 29 page letter, 227KB PDF, titled "Open letter to Pope Benedict XVI", which opens with:

quote:

A Common Word between Us and You - (Summary and Abridgement)

Muslims and Christians together make up well over half of the world's population. Without peace and justice between these two religious communities, there can be no meaningful peace Muslims and Christians. ...



I leave it here without comment, except to say that God's Love is not conditional on obedience to 'God's word', but is open ended without condition. If there is to be dialogue between the faiths, all the faiths, then let this be the basic condition of dialogue, and not that "God orders people to fear Him as much as possible, and to listen (and thus to understand the truth); to obey (and thus to will the good), and to spend (and thus to exercise love and virtue), which, He says, is better for our souls." Fear and obedience is not our common bond in the One God. Love of God rules all, which is why we are the Free.

If anyone wishes to see commentary, please visit JiahdWatch at this location:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018436.php

This invitation to dialogue for peace between the faiths is a good gesture, but it needs to be addressed to the Extremists first. And it must include all the faiths, including Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Judaism, Yazidi, Bahai, and native animists; not merely Christianity and Islam to be valid. God loves all humanity without conditions, because 'Freedom under God' rules. We submit to no less.


Ivan
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terrorism map
Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 07:55 pm:   

It's a mad mad world of 'terror'.

400px-Terrorincidents2001atlas.jpg (link in image)
Global map of terrorist activities, updated very 300 secs.

How do you dialogue with people who kill you? How many atrocities against humanity are committed daily? How many kill themselves to kill you? It's all here, updated continuously. Not to blame any one group, mind you, but there is one group that keeps popping up on the terror incidents map over and over again... I wonder why?
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XXX
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 11:29 am:   

Dutch "youth" burning cars

http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2007/10/suicide-attack-in-amsterdam.html

The police are not allowed to arrest them?
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Ivan/cars burning
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 10:39 am:   

Why are Dutch "youths" burning cars? Extremism at work?

_42472033_muslims-ap203.jpg
BBC News, Jan. 2007 (interactive) How much freedom to be unfree?

quote:

Moderate Muslim preachers are leaving the Netherlands and being replaced by more extreme clerics, senior Dutch Muslim officials have warned.



They lose their "moderates" so Wahabbi trained imams fill the vaccuum? This is an odd dilemma, because if imams are leaving the country, but the mosques need imams, they should be replaced with more moderate Dutch trained imams, not those coming from outside with extremist radical views. If Amsterdam is striving to become a pride of Dutch tolerance, i.e. multiculturalism, but the net effect is greater radicalization of their Islamic population who are increasing intolerant of Dutch values, then something has gone terribly wrong. "Youths" setting cars on fire is then only the beginning symptom of a systemic social failure of policy. Why are imams leaving for other European countries, but the people stay? Shouldn't the logic be that if they are leaving because they are unhappy with Dutch society, their congregations leave with them? But this is not what is happening. So instead they become more radicalized by intolerant teachings at their mosques.

As the above posted Terrorism Map shows, this is a worldwide problem. Not all terrorism is due to religious fanaticism, but of what percentage of all terrorist attacks are extremist religion inspired? And of the three Abrahamic faiths, what percent of such attacks can be attached to them? Is there a pattern of disproportionate Islamic extremism represented in these attacks, perhaps by a very wide margin, versus Jewish or Christian 'extremists'? Has Dutch society examined this pattern and come to any meaningful conclusions about its own bred Islamic terrorism within its borders? Have any European nations examined this? If there is a pattern, is it not the duty and responsibility of government policy to address this recent development within their borders to stop it? Where is failure here? Is it from a lack of Dutch tolerance? Of course not. So then it is from a lack of Islamic tolerance of the country to which they migrated? It seems so. Then only one conclusion can be drawn from this, that the immigrants are imposing their own violent culture on the tolerant and peaceful Dutch culture, with potentially grievous effects on Dutch society, and all of Europe, so everyone feels threatened and unsafe.
How can they stop this?

One way is to restrict immigration from Islamic countries. That may not be a most fair solution, but at least it will stop temporarily the hemorrhage of social resources to combat this hostile presence. How much freedom should a hostile population be allowed to make others unfree? If the Dutch feel threatened by the violence of a hostile Islamic population, of which Theo Van Gogh's murder was merely the first symptom, then the tolerance shown to such hostility must be reversed, whether through education, greater use of force and sentencing for such crimes, or to simply keep them out. They have no choice, or else the end result will be conquest of Dutch European society by an alien hostile society, where the Dutch will become fearful 'strangers' within their own land, and perhaps all of Europe. To confuse freedom, which requires responsibility of law and reciprocity of respect, with permissiveness, which allows for the most hostile actions to go free, is a big mistake and dire precedent for social failure. No society can survive it if allows for predatory behaviors within its population. This is why sex abuse pedophiles are not allowed, nor violent crimes, nor rape against women, nor extortion or criminal gangs, nor cheating consumers; all these are predatory and may not exist. So if a social pattern emerges that a certain group inspired by their extremist religion are cause for such crimes, is it not time to address this cause, and if necessary, to restrict them from entry?

This social pattern is happening all over Europe with Muslim immigration. It is now a main concern in Switzerland, and the elections there will show how the Swiss Europeans will react. It is a concern in Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Great Britain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, and even Spain which has shown itself most accommodating to the extremists. How will they deal with this? And when, before it is too late, and civil war breaks out? Their social leaders better get a grip on this soon, or it will be disastrous for Europe.

Thanks XXX for bringing this to our attention. How long before cars are burning all over Europe, or worse, killings are done all over Europe in the name of an extremist religion? Fear is breaking out in Europe, with good reason.

Ivan
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Ivan/set fires
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 01:19 am:   

Were California fires Jihad?

2510_firebinladen_g.jpg (interactive)
Not a conspiracy theory, but if they catch them...

http://www.globalincidentmap.com/eventdetail.php?ID=5512

Al Qaeda threatened to do this. Some fires were set. Will the public ever know?
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Arson/Al Qeada
Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 10:19 am:   

Domestic Terrorism, Arson

Domestic Terrorism… California arson fires easier than hijacking planes
By Doug Hagmann Thursday, October 25, 2007

"An early morning telephone call from our federal law enforcement source in California revealed information about the fires that suggests these are different than previous fires. Stated this source: “This is California and fires happen. But the manner in which these fires ‘happened’ indicate some level of pre-planning.” When asked about the specific indications of pre-planning, this source declined to elaborate, adding only that the specific locations of origin combined by perfect weather and wind conditions are being investigated.

“The terrorists with whom we are at war and want to exact revenge on the U.S. are using simpler tactics with greater results. We have interviewed 10, perhaps 12 admitted members or al Qaeda or ‘al Qaeda sympathizers’ who have admitted using fires to destroy areas of the country, from Utah to Colorado and California. They’ve studies previous fire disasters, and have spoken and written about the physical damage, the psychological damage, and the strain on our resources,” stated this source."

We must be careful with regards to painting acts of destruction like these fires as acts of terrorism. If a link to Al Qeada or Islamic Jihadists can be proven then, we a faced with a new level of threat we are not prepared to cope with.

As we enter the period of global warming the Earth's systems are in transition. Drought, Fires, Disease outbreaks and other effects of global warming will affect us. These events will create conditions that can be exploited by a cunning adversary.

In WWII we experimented with biotechnolgy to induce fires in Japan. These experiments were dubbed Bat Bombers.

A link to that site is attached.

After the bats set fire to a hangar and a general's car, the Army Air Forces had seen enough of the experiment.
The Bat Bombers
By C. V. Glines

http://www.afa.org/magazine/1990/1090bat.html

Al Qeada is adaptable and has thousands of supporters that scan the internet for tactics techniques and procedures they can adapt for use against us.

Is is possible that Al Qeada was behind these fires? Unfortunately that possiblity is very real, but has yet to be confirmed.
_________________________________________________________________________
PS: Please go to: The Legal Status of Using Weapons of Mass Destruction Again the Infidels -- see pg. 12-14 for using fire in Jihad against civilian populations.
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Iran Rising or Falling
Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 04:46 am:   

Iran rising or on the decline?
Thursday, 31 May 2007
Outside View: Deciphering Iran

Source: World Peace Herald

By Mohammad Mohaddessin
UPI Outside View Commentator
PARIS -- Euphoria over the outcome of the talks between Washington and Tehran has given the die-hard proponents of conciliation with the Iranian mullahs a glimmer of hope. As illusory as they are, these expectations reveal a blurred understanding of the state of affairs in Iran and the essence of the Iranian mullahs' foreign and domestic policy.


A fundamental question needs to be answered in order to see through the fog that hangs over the policy on Iran: Are we witnessing the emergence of a regional power or the demise of a troglodyte theocracy?

Tehran's unscrupulous apologists project it as a stable and powerful state. The all-too-familiar argument is that the mullahs, owing to their interest in a stable and unified Iraq, would inevitably retract from their aggressive posturing. This logic leads only to one policy implication: Engage the mullahs in dialogue and encourage the regime to change its behavior.

In practice, pursuing such a policy, as has been the case for the past 16 years, has only strengthened the most radical and belligerent faction in the ruling elite, and effectively made the West and the Middle East vulnerable to the Iranian regime and Islamic fundamentalism.

Far from a position of strength, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's decision to propel an obscure, but ruthless, Revolutionary Guards' commander to the presidency in 2005 was a shrewd, yet inevitable, attempt to prevent the state as a whole from going down the abyss. The crippling effects of internal divisions, the seismic shift in regional geopolitics which saw the fall of the Iraqi government to the west and Taliban to the east, and, above all, the dangerously rising tide of public discontent made it plain to the supreme leader and his retinue that they had to close ranks and shore up their defenses in order to survive.

On the nuclear front and Iraq, Khamenei sprinted forward at full throttle, cognizant that without either, his regime's chances of withstanding the winds of change would be remote at best. During four years of nuclear talks, Tehran defied at least 12 ultimatums to stop its enrichment program, including Security Council resolutions 1696, 1737 and 1747. It also rejected a very generous package of international incentives in June 2006, in addition to the American offer to engage in direct talks in return for suspension of uranium enrichment activities.

If the mullahs had gained a degree of permanency, they would have used this golden opportunity and agreed to negotiate. That would have seemed particularly plausible considering that the U.S.-led coalition had eliminated Tehran's two primary external nemeses, Saddam Hussein and the Taliban, and caged its main internal threat, the opposition People's Mujahedeen.

Yet, keenly aware of the regime's vulnerability, the ruling clerics adamantly refused to bargain. Nowhere was this more evident than in remarks by the supreme leader in March 2006. "Any retreat will be followed by other chalices of poison. Our path is an irreversible one," Khamenei insisted.

Tehran's adamant refusal to resolve the nuclear standoff confirms the view held by many that for the Iranian leadership obtaining nuclear weapons is a strategic decision and a key accomplishment that would empower the regime to emerge as the hegemon in that part of the world.

On the home front, the new round of crackdowns nationwide has been the fiercest of its kind in recent history. It ironically reflects the regime's growing isolation inside the country. The citizenry's daring defiance of the mullahs, including several major uprisings in April and May, in addition to nearly 5,000 protests and strikes across the country last year, has prompted senior officials to express trepidation over losing control of the situation.

What are the options?

The West, in search of lucrative commerce with Tehran, has spared no effort in engaging the so-called pragmatic or "reformist" elements within the ruling elite. Central to 16 years of conciliation was hobbling Tehran's only effective and organized opposition, the People's Mujahedeen, by branding it terrorist.

This policy netted billions for the Europeans and gave the ever-cunning mullahs the opportunity to make giant strides in their nuclear ambitions and spread their fundamentalist tentacles in the Middle East, thus increasing the chances of another war. The Iranian people, meanwhile, suffered both in terms of their livelihood and liberties at home and abroad.

With this misguided policy dead in its tracks, the alternative is not a foreign military intervention as that would be neither feasible nor desirable with calamitous regional and global repercussions.

A third option, which entails reaching out to Tehran's organized democratic opposition as the catalyst for change, offers the only effective and viable approach. Commenting on antigovernment protests a couple of years ago, a Tehran-based European diplomat made a remarkably accurate observation. "The pent-up anger is still there, beneath the surface. But for it to seriously take off you need a catalyst, you need a cause, you need organization and leadership. It's a big task," he said.

The empowerment of the Iranian people, therefore, requires an end to the policy of hampering the main opposition movement. By appeasing the mullahs, the Clinton administration and the European Union did exactly the opposite.

The annulment of the terrorist designation of the People's Mujahedeen by the Court of the First Instance of the European Communities last December rendered the terror tag on the PMOI illegal and illegitimate. The West should now move swiftly to rectify a colossal policy blunder. It could ill afford to let this opportunity slip away by continuing to engage in fruitless dialogue with Tehran.

--------------
(Mohammad Mohaddessin is chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the opposition National Council of Resistance of Iran. He is the author of "Islamic Fundamentalism: The New Global Threat.")

http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/view/3583/153/

Forces within Iran are begining to come into open conflict with each other. This conflict has been forced underground due to the strength and pervasiveness of Iran's security services.

Formation of a Virtual Reconaissance and Strike Complex that used observers in Iran to identify targets could provide sufficient fire power to begin to break the hold of the current regime.

A recommendation would be to virtually link Iran analysis centers to perform analysis and fusion of data in support of this effort.

In order to be truly effective efforts would have to be cross linked to media releases agent networks and intellgience databases.

Just a thought
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Ivan/the horror
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   

"Oh, the horror, the horror!" - What extremists believe from the 'dark heart of Islam', in their own words.

B0968.jpg (interactive)
"Terror leaders describe America bound by Islam"

Here are some sample quotes:

quote:

"Once Islam dominates, anyone living inside the Islamic state must abide by our rules. There is no choice. You will abide or face the punishment," said Muhammad Abdel-El, the spokesman and a senior leader of the Popular Resistance Committees terror organization.

Sheik Abu Saqer, a prominent Gaza-based preacher, a founder of the Sword of Islam terror group and a subscriber to the ideology of al-Qaida, explained if Islam controls the U.S., all American women, whether Muslim or not, must cover their hair.

"This is the demand of our religion. Being and walking naked doesn't mean that you are enjoying more freedom; it means that you are going against Allah's laws and you are serving the enemies of Islam who want to empty our Islamic society from its values. Uncovered heads is a form of nudity."


Nudity? That gives it a new spin! :-) What dark planet are these guys from? Joyless perverted weirdos.

I don't know how much to believe these terrorist spokesmen, but their ideas of our freedoms are rather 'undeveloped', shall we say, which gives a new meaning to the term, the 'developing world'. Another favorite:

quote:

Hamad and other terror leaders stated all Jews and Christians living in the U.S. once Islam takes over would need to pay the jizya – a special protection tax – and other special taxes for non-Muslims, including one for the right to cultivate land. Non-Muslims cannot own land themselves.

Saqer said no new synagogues or churches can be built in the Islamic state. Existing houses of worship may remain, but services cannot be conducted loudly or in any public fashion. The ringing of church bells or blowing of the ceremonial Jewish shofar would be forbidden, the terror leaders said.


That remains to be seen as to how much power the people are willing to give these terrorist extremists over their lives. The article continues on in this vein, that Britney Spears and Madonna must be stoned to death if they fail to obey them. I think they have a tin ear, or just don't like their names. :-) Still, artistic expression is one of our basic human rights. I guess Sharia doesn't allow that? 'Freedom of choice' is obviously out, under their dictatorial supremacist regime.

Anyway, it looks an interesting book as an insight into the 'heart of darkness' from the world of Islam extremism, but don't lose any sleep over it. They're out to lunch. I'd rather have Madonna and Britney around much more than these clowns, though I am no real fan of either. But better loud raucous music than beheadings and stonings, and "kill kill!" for Allah.

If you want to read spirited and interesting commentary on this subject, see here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018705.php#comments

Good grief! Ivan
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ananimas
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 12:38 am:   

Don't like our democracy, but here is iExtremists at work and play.

“They were so many of them and they were seated all over the plane. They acted like college kids except they were too old. They stood up in unison, kept changing seats, and kept passing cellular phones. They were so disruptive. No one else was being obnoxious like they were. This was totally out-of-line behavior. They were playing musical chairs. The flight attendant kept telling them to sit in their seats. But every time [the flight attendant] was out of eyesight, they were at it again."
(Pajamas)

read it all: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018729.php

and here too: http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/11/six_arabs_and_a_lawsuit.php

With lovely airline passengers like these, who needs obnoxious enemies?

Ah yes, the best people from iSlamania. Lovely country, loved the camels, and those veiled dark eyed beauties. :-)
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New Battlefront
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 08:54 am:   

Ananimas,

What you posted is an example of the new battlefront that has opened in the War against the Jihadists.

On this new front acts of information and asymetric warfare are being conducted against us. This incident you posted is one such act.

6 Muslims removed from plane sue
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20070313/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_passengers_remo ved

This attempt is a crude example of INFOWAR compared to the capability that was demonstrated by the students at three univeristies using human networks, the internet, cell phones, messages and access to contacts in the media.

In this ideological war all tools of INFOWAR have been placed on the table to expose the Jihadist's for what they are.

To do this we need to expand our networks and build cross network ties and leverage the power of cyber space such as youtube in a sophisticated way in order to tell the story of the atrocities of Jihadists.

At present the Jihadists have made great strides on the Internet in the war of Ideology we now must strike back using the truth and capability to reveal the intentions of the Jihadists and their asymetical campaign against us.
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Ivan/Islamreform
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:07 pm:   

QUIZ for What do the True 'Extremists' Believe?

Take this short Quiz: SwedishFlag140.gif (interactive)
Click, and then review the answers in light the all the below:

Muslims Against Sharia:
"The following verses promote divisiveness and religious hatred, bigotry and discrimination. They must be either removed from the Koran or declared outdated and invalid, and marked as such."

• 1.6: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

• 2.19: Or like abundant rain from the cloud in which is utter darkness and thunder and lightning; they put their fingers into their ears because of the thunder peal, for fear of death, and Allah encompasses the unbelievers.
• 2.24: But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.
• 2.34: And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
• 2.39: And (as to) those who disbelieve in and reject My communications, they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.
• 2.88: And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.
• 2.89: And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers.
• 2.90: Evil is that for which they have sold their souls that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.
• 2.93: And when We made a covenant with you and raised the mountain over you: Take hold of what We have given you with firmness and be obedient. They said: We hear and disobey. And they were made to imbibe (the love of) the calf into their hearts on account of their unbelief Say: Evil is that which your belief bids you if you are believers.
• 2.96: And you will most certainly find them the greediest of men for life (greedier) than even those who are polytheists; every one of them loves that he should be granted a life of a thousand years, and his being granted a long life will in no way remove him further off from the chastisement, and Allah sees what they
• 2.98: Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.
• 2.99: And certainly We have revealed to you clear communications and none disbelieve in them except the transgressors.
• 2.100: What! whenever they make a covenant, a party of them cast it aside? Nay, most of them do not believe.
• 2.101: And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing.
• 2.102: And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever. Even then men learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it any one except with Allah's permission, and they learned what harmed them and did not profit them, and certainly they know that he who bought it should have no share of good in the hereafter and evil was the price for which they sold their souls, had they but known this.
• 2.103: And if they had believed and guarded themselves (against evil), reward from Allah would certainly have been better; had they but known (this).
• 2.104: O you who believe! do not say Raina and say Unzurna and listen, and for the unbelievers there is a painful chastisement.
• 2.105: Those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book do not like, nor do the polytheists, that the good should be sent down to you from your Lord, and Allah chooses especially whom He pleases for His mercy, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.
• 2.109: Many of the followers of the Book wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.
• 2.113: And the Jews say: The Christians do not follow anything (good) and the Christians say: The Jews do not follow anything (good) while they recite the (same) Book. Even thus say those who have no knowledge, like to what they say; so Allah shall judge between them on the day of resurrection in what they differ.
• 2.120: And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.
• 2.135: And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
• 2.140: Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.
• 2.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all;
• 2.162: Abiding in it; their chastisement shall not be lightened nor shall they be given respite.
• 2.178: O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.
• 2.191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
• 2.217: They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
• 2.221: And do not marry the idolatresses until they believe, and certainly a believing maid is better than an idolatress woman, even though she should please you; and do not give (believing women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe, and certainly a believing servant is better than an idolater, even though he should please you; these invite to the fire, and Allah invites to the garden and to forgiveness by His will, and makes clear His communications to men, that they may be mindful.
• 2.222: And they ask you about menstruation. Say: It is a discomfort; therefore keep aloof from the women during the menstrual discharge and do not go near them until they have become clean; then when they have cleansed themselves, go in to them as Allah has commanded you; surely Allah loves those who turn much (to Him), and He loves those who purify themselves.
• 2.223: Your wives are a tilth for you, so go into your tilth when you like, and do good beforehand for yourselves, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that you will meet Him, and give good news to the believers.
• 2.254: O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers they are the unjust.
• 2.257: Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide.
• 2.258: Have you not considered him (Namrud) who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: My Lord is He who gives life and causes to die, he said: I give life and cause death. Ibrahim said: So surely Allah causes the sun to rise from the east, then make it rise from the west; thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people.
• 2.264: O you who believe! do not make your charity worthless by reproach and injury, like him who spends his property to be seen of men and does not believe in Allah and the last day; so his parable is as the parable of a smooth rock with earth upon it, then a heavy rain falls upon it, so it leaves it bare; they shall not be able to gain anything of what they have earned; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.
• 2.286: Allah does not impose upon any soul a duty but to the extent of its ability; for it is (the benefit of) what it has earned and upon it (the evil of) what it has wrought: Our Lord! do not punish us if we forget or make a mistake; Our Lord! do not lay on us a burden as Thou didst lay on those before us, Our Lord do not impose upon us that which we have not the strength to bear; and pardon us and grant us protection and have mercy on us, Thou art our Patron, so help us against the unbelieving people.

• 3.4: Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution.
• 3.10: (As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire.
• 3.11: Like the striving of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected Our communications, so Allah destroyed them on account of their faults; and Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
• 3.12: Say to those who disbelieve: You shall be vanquished, and driven together to hell; and evil is the resting-place.
• 3.13: Indeed there was a sign for you in the two hosts (which) met together in encounter; one party fighting in the way of Allah and the other unbelieving, whom they saw twice as many as themselves with the sight of the eye and Allah strengthens with His aid whom He pleases; most surely there is a lesson in this for those who have sight.
• 3.19: Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
• 3.21: Surely (as for) those who disbelieve in the communications of Allah and slay the prophets unjustly and slay those among men who enjoin justice, announce to them a painful chastisement.
• 3.22: Those are they whose works shall become null in this world as well as the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.
• 3.23: Have you not considered those (Jews) who are given a portion of the Book? They are invited to the Book of Allah that it might decide between them, then a part of them turn back and they withdraw.
• 3.24: This is because they say: The fire shall not touch us but for a few days; and what they have forged deceives them in the matter of their religion.
• 3.25: Then how will it be when We shall gather them together on a day about which there is no doubt, and every soul shall be fully paid what it has earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly?
• 3.28: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
• 3.32: Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
• 3.56: Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.
• 3.57: And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust.
• 3.85: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
• 3.86: How shall Allah guide a people who disbelieved after their believing and (after) they had borne witness that the Apostle was true and clear arguments had come to them; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
• 3.90: Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray.
• 3.91: Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.
• 3.99: Say: O followers of the Book! why do you hinder him who believes from the way of Allah? You seek (to make) it crooked, while you are witness, and Allah is not heedless of what you do.
• 3.100: O you who believe! if you obey a party from among those who have been given the Book, they will turn you back as unbelievers after you have believed.
• 3.106: On the day when (some) faces shall turn white and (some) faces shall turn black; then as to those whose faces turn black: Did you disbelieve after your believing? Taste therefore the chastisement because you disbelieved.
• 3.111: They shall by no means harm you but with a slight evil; and if they fight with you they shall turn (their) backs to you, then shall they not be helped.
• 3.112: Abasement is made to cleave to them wherever they are found, except under a covenant with Allah and a covenant with men, and they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits.
• 3.116: (As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah; and these are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.
• 3.127: That He may cut off a portion from among those who disbelieve, or abase them so that they should return disappointed of attaining what they desired.
• 3.131: And guard yourselves against the fire, which has been prepared for the unbelievers.
• 3.140: If a wound has afflicted you (at Ohud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you; and Allah does not love the unjust.
• 3.141: And that He may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings.
• 3.147: And their saying was no other than that they said: Our Lord! forgive us our faults and our extravagance in our affair and make firm our feet and help us against the unbelieving people.
• 3.149: O you who believe! if you obey those who disbelieve they will turn you back upon your heels, so you will turn back losers.
• 3.151: We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
• 3.156: O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain; so Allah makes this to be an intense regret in their hearts; and Allah gives life and causes death and Allah sees what you do.
• 3.167: And that He might know the hypocrites; and it was said to them: Come, fight in Allah's way, or defend yourselves. They said: If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you. They were on that day much nearer to unbelief than to belief. They say with their mouths what is not in their hearts, and Allah best knows what they conceal.
• 3.176: And let not those grieve you who fall into unbelief hastily; surely they can do no harm to Allah at all; Allah intends that He should not give them any portion in the hereafter, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
• 3.177: Surely those who have bought unbelief at the price of faith shall do no harm at all to Allah, and they shall have a painful chastisement.
• 3.178: And let not those who disbelieve think that Our granting them respite is better for their souls; We grant them respite only that they may add to their sins; and they shall have a disgraceful chastisement.
• 3.196: Let it not deceive you that those who disbelieve go to and fro in the cities fearlessly.
• 3.197: A brief enjoyment! then their abode is hell, and evil is the resting-place.

• 4.3: And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
• 4.11: Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
• 4.14: And whoever disobeys Allah and His Apostle and goes beyond His limits, He will cause him to enter fire to abide in it, and he shall have an abasing chastisement.
• 4.15: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.
• 4.16: And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
• 4.18: And repentance is not for those who go on doing evil deeds, until when death comes to one of them, he says: Surely now I repent; nor (for) those who die while they are unbelievers. These are they for whom We have prepared a painful chastisement.
• 4.34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
• 4.37: Those who are niggardly and bid people to be niggardly and hide what Allah has given them out of His grace; and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement.
• 4.42: On that day will those who disbelieve and disobey the Apostle desire that the earth were leveled with them, and they shall not hide any word from Allah.
• 4.43: O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath unless (you are) traveling on the road until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
• 4.46: Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and Unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.
• 4.47: O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violators of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.
• 4.48: Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.
• 4.49: Have you not considered those who attribute purity to themselves? Nay, Allah purifies whom He pleases; and they shall not be wronged the husk of a date stone.
• 4.50: See how they forge the lie against Allah, and this is sufficient as a manifest sin.
• 4.51: Have you not seen those to whom a portion of the Book has been given? They believe in idols and false deities and say of those who disbelieve: These are better guided in the path than those who believe.
• 4.52: Those are they whom Allah has cursed, and whomever Allah curses you shall not find any helper for him.
• 4.55: So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.
• 4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
• 4.61: And when it is said to them: Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Apostle, you will see the hypocrites turning away from you with (utter) aversion.
• 4.76: Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
• 4.83: And when there comes to them news of security or fear they spread it abroad; and if they had referred it to the Apostle and to those in authority among them, those among them who can search out the knowledge of it would have known it, and were it not for the grace of Allah upon you and His mercy, you would have certainly followed the Shaitan save a few
• 4.84: Fight then in Allah's way; this is not imposed on you except In relation to yourself, and rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve and Allah is strongest in prowess and strongest to give an exemplary punishment.
• 4.88: What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
• 4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
• 4.91: You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.
• 4.101: And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.
• 4.102: And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.
• 4.137: Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path.
• 4.138: Announce to the hypocrites that they shall have a painful chastisement:
• 4.139: Those who take the unbelievers for guardians rather than believers. Do they seek honor from them? Then surely all honor is for Allah.
• 4.140: And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.
• 4.141: Those who wait for (some misfortune to befall) you then If you have a victory from Allah they say: Were we not with you? And i. there IS a chance for the unbelievers, they say: Did we not acquire the mastery over you and defend you from the believers? So Allah shall Judge between you on the day of resurrection, and Allah will by no means give the unbelievers a way against the believers.
• 4.142: Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them, and when they stand up to prayer they stand up sluggishly; they do it only to be seen of men and do not remember Allah save a little.
• 4.144: O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?
• 4.145: Surely the hypocrites are in the lowest stage of the fire and you shall not find a helper for them.
• 4.150: Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His apostles and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His apostles and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and desire to take a course between (this and) that.
• 4.151: These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement.
• 4.155: Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.
• 4.157: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
• 4.160: Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
• 4.161: And their taking usury though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.
• 4.167: Surely (as for) those who disbelieve and hinder (men) from Allah's way, they indeed have strayed off into a remote
• 4.168: Surely (as for) those who disbelieve and act unjustly Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to a path
• 4.169: Except the path of hell, to abide in it for ever, and this is easy to Allah.
• 4.171: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
• 4.176: They ask you for a decision of the law. Say: Allah gives you a decision concerning the person who has neither parents nor offspring; if a man dies (and) he has no son and he has a sister, she shall have half of what he leaves, and he shall be her heir she has no son; but if there be two (sisters), they shall have two-thirds of what he leaves; and if there are brethren, men and women, then the male shall have the like of the portion of two females; Allah makes clear to you, lest you err; and Allah knows all things.

• 5.12: And certainly Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains; and Allah said: Surely I am with you; if you keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and believe in My apostles and assist them and offer to Allah a goodly gift, I will most certainly cover your evil deeds, and I will most certainly cause you to enter into gardens beneath which rivers flow, but whoever disbelieves from among you after that, he indeed shall lose the right way.
• 5.13: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).
• 5.17: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah -- He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things,
• 5.18: And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
• 5.33: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
• 5.36: Surely (as for) those who disbelieve, even if they had what is in the earth, all of it, and the like of it with it, that they might ransom themselves with it from the punishment of the day of resurrection, it shall not be accepted from them, and they shall have a painful punishment.
• 5.37: They would desire to go forth from the fire, and they shall not go forth from it, and they shall have a lasting punishment.
• 5.38: And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
• 5.41: O Apostle! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
• 5.51: O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
• 5.54: O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
• 5.57: O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you.
• 5.58: And when you call to prayer they make it a mockery and a joke; this is because they are a people who do not understand.
• 5.59: Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?
• 5.60: Say: Shall I inform you of (him who is) worse than this in retribution from Allah? (Worse is he) whom Allah has cursed and brought His wrath upon, and of whom He made apes and swine, and he who served the Shaitan; these are worse in place and more erring from the straight path.
• 5.61: And when they come to you, they say: We believe; and indeed they come in with unbelief and indeed they go forth with it; and Allah knows best what they concealed.
• 5.62: And you will see many of them striving with one another to hasten in sin and exceeding the limits, and their eating of what is unlawfully acquired; certainly evil is that which they do.
• 5.63: Why do not the learned men and the doctors of law prohibit them from their speaking of what is sinful and their eating of what is unlawfully acquired? Certainly evil is that which they work.
• 5.64: And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.
• 5.67: O Apostle! deliver what has been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.
• 5.68: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
• 5.72: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.
• 5.73: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
• 5.78: Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.
• 5.79: They used not to forbid each other the hateful things (which) they did; certainly evil was that which they did.
• 5.80: You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.
• 5.81: And had they believed in Allah and the prophet and what was revealed to him, they would not have taken them for friends but! most of them are transgressors.
• 5.82: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
• 5.86: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame.
• 5.115: Allah said: Surely I will send it down to you, but whoever shall disbelieve afterwards from among you, surely I will chastise him with a chastisement with which I will not chastise, anyone among the nations

• 6.30: And could you see when they are made to stand before their Lord. He will say: Is not this the truth? They will say: Yea! by our Lord. He will say: Taste then the chastisement because you disbelieved.
• 6.45: (So the kafirs were annihilated. All praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds!)
• 6.70: And leave those who have taken their religion for a play and an idle sport, and whom this world's life has deceived, and remind (them) thereby lest a soul should be given up to destruction for what it has earned; it shall not have besides Allah any guardian nor an intercessor, and if it should seek to give every compensation, it shall not be accepted from it; these are they who shall be given up to destruction for what they earned; they shall have a drink of boiling water and a painful chastisement because they disbelieved.
• 6.130: O assembly of jinn and men! did there not come to you apostles from among you, relating to you My communications and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: We bear witness against ourselves; and this world's life deceived them, and they shall bear witness against their own souls that they were unbelievers.
• 6.137: And thus their associates have made fair seeming to most of the polytheists the killing of their children, that they may cause them to perish and obscure for them their religion; and if Allah had pleased, they would not have done it, therefore leave them and that which they forge.
• 6.146: And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
• 6.147: But if they give you the lie, then say: Your Lord is the Lord of All-encompassing mercy; and His punishment cannot be averted from the guilty people.
• 6.148: Those who are polytheists will say: If Allah had pleased we would not have associated (aught with Him) nor our fathers, nor would we have forbidden (to ourselves) anything; even so did those before them reject until they tasted Our punishment. Say: Have you any knowledge with you so you should bring it forth to us? You only follow a conjecture and you only tell lies.

• 7.37: Who is then more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah or rejects His communications? (As for) those, their portion of the Book shall reach them, until when Our messengers come to them causing them to die, they shall say: Where is that which you used to call upon besides Allah? They would say: They are gone away from us; and they shall bear witness against themselves that they were unbelievers
• 7.44: And the dwellers of the garden will call out to the inmates of the fire: Surely we have found what our Lord promised us to be true; have you too found what your Lord promised to be true? They will say: Yes. Then a crier will cry out among them that the curse of Allah is on the unjust.
• 7.45: Who hinder (people) from Allah's way and seek to make it crooked, and they are disbelievers in the hereafter.
• 7.50: And the inmates of the fire shall call out to the dwellers of the garden, saying: Pour on us some water or of that which Allah has given you. They shall say: Surely Allah has prohibited them both to the unbelievers.
• 7.66: The chiefs of those who disbelieved from among his people said: Most surely we see you in folly, and most surely we think you to be of the liars.

• 8.7: And when Allah promised you one of the two parties that it shall be yours and you loved that the one not armed should he yours and Allah desired to manifest the truth of what was true by His words and to cut off the root of the unbelievers.
• 8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
• 8.13: This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
• 8.14: This taste it, and (know) that for the unbelievers is the chastisement of fire.
• 8.15: O you who believe! when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them.
• 8.16: And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be.
• 8.17: So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
• 8.18: This, and that Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers.
• 8.19: If you demanded a judgment, the judgment has then indeed come to you; and if you desist, it will be better for you; and if you turn back (to fight), We (too) shall turn back, and your forces shall avail you nothing, though they may be many, and (know) that Allah is with the believers.
• 8.30: And when those who disbelieved devised plans against you that they might confine you or slay you or drive you away; and they devised plans and Allah too had arranged a plan; and Allah is the best of planners.
• 8.31: And when Our communications are recited to them, they say: We have heard indeed; if we pleased we could say the like of it; this is nothing but the stories of the ancients.
• 8.32: And when they said: O Allah! if this is the truth from Thee, then rain upon us stones from heaven or inflict on us a painful punishment.
• 8.33: But Allah was not going to chastise them while you were among them, nor is Allah going to chastise them while yet they ask for forgiveness.
• 8.34: And what (excuse) have they that Allah should not chastise them while they hinder (men) from the Sacred Mosque and they are not (fit to be) guardians of it; its guardians are only those who guard (against evil), but most of them do not know.
• 8.35: And their prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for you disbelieved.
• 8.36: Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell.
• 8.37: That Allah might separate the impure from the good, and put the impure, some of it upon the other, and pile it up together, then cast it into hell; these it is that are the losers.
• 8.38: Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.
• 8.39: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
• 8.49: When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts was disease said: Their religion has deceived them; and whoever trusts in Allah, then surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
• 8.50: And had you seen when the angels will cause to die those who disbelieve, smiting their faces and their backs, and (saying): Taste the punishment of burning.
• 8.52: In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they disbelieved in Allah's communications, therefore Allah destroyed them on account of their faults; surely Allah is strong, severe in requiting (evil).
• 8.55: Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe.
• 8.65: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

• 9.1: (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
• 9.2: So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
• 9.3: And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
• 9.4: Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
• 9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
• 9.8: How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.
• 9.9: They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
• 9.10: They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
• 9.11: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
• 9.12: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief surely their oaths are nothing• so that they may desist.
• 9.13: What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
• 9.14: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
• 9.17: The idolaters have no right to visit the mosques of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.
• 9.23: O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.
• 9.26: Then Allah sent down His tranquility upon His Apostle and upon the believers, and sent down hosts which you did not see, and chastised those who disbelieved, and that is the reward of the unbelievers.
• 9.28: O you who believe! The idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
• 9.29: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
• 9.30: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
• 9.32: They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.
• 9.33: He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.
• 9.36: Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
• 9.37: Postponing (of the sacred month) is only an addition in unbelief, wherewith those who disbelieve are led astray, violating it one year and keeping it sacred another, that they may agree in the number (of months) that Allah has made sacred, and thus violate what Allah has made sacred; the evil of their doings is made fairseeming to them; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.
• 9.49: And among them there is he who says: Allow me and do not try me. Surely into trial have they already tumbled down, and most surely hell encompasses the unbelievers.
• 9.55: Let not then their property and their children excite your admiration; Allah only wishes to chastise them with these in this world's life and (that) their souls may depart while they are unbelievers.
• 9.64: The hypocrites fear lest a chapter should be sent down to them telling them plainly of what is in their hearts. Say: Go on mocking, surely Allah will bring forth what you fear.
• 9.67: The hypocritical men and the hypocritical women are all alike; they enjoin evil and forbid good and withhold their hands; they have forsaken Allah, so He has forsaken them; surely the hypocrites are the transgressors.
• 9.68: Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.
• 9.73: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
• 9.74: They swear by Allah that they did not speak, and certainly they did speak, the word of unbelief, and disbelieved after their Islam, and they had determined upon what they have not been able to effect, and they did not find fault except because Allah and His Apostle enriched them out of His grace; therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper.
• 9.80: Ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them; even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times, Allah will not forgive them; this is because they disbelieve in Allah and His Apostle, and Allah does not guide the transgressing people.
• 9.84: And never offer prayer for any one of them who dies and do not stand by his grave; surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Apostle and they shall die in transgression.
• 9.85: And let not their property and their children excite your admiration; Allah only wishes to chastise them with these in this world and (that) their souls may depart while they are unbelievers.
• 9.90: And the defaulters from among the dwellers of the desert came that permission may be given to them and they sat (at home) who lied to Allah and His Apostle; a painful chastisement shall afflict those of them who disbelieved.
• 9.97: The dwellers of the desert are very hard in unbelief and hypocrisy, and more disposed not to know the limits of what Allah has revealed to His Apostle; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
• 9.101: And from among those who are round about you of the dwellers of the desert there are hypocrites, and from among the people of Medina (also); they are stubborn in hypocrisy; you do not know them; We know them; We will chastise them twice then shall they be turned back to a grievous chastisement
• 9.107: And those who built a masjid to cause harm and for unbelief and to cause disunion among the believers and an ambush to him who made war against Allah and His Apostle before; and they will certainly swear: We did not desire aught but good; and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.
• 9.109: Is he, therefore, better who lays his foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure, or he who lays his foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
• 9.110: The building which they have built will ever continue to be a source of disquiet in their hearts, except that their hearts get cut into pieces; and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
• 9.111: Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
• 9.113: It is not (fit) for the Prophet and those who believe that they should ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even though they should be near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are inmates of the flaming fire.
• 9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
• 9.125: And as for those in whose hearts is a disease, it adds uncleanness to their uncleanness and they die while they are unbelievers.

• 10.4: To Him is your return, of all (of you); the promise of Allah (made) in truth; surely He begins the creation in the first instance, then He reproduces it, that He may with justice recompense those who believe and do good; and (as for) those who disbelieve, they shall have a drink of hot water and painful punishment because they disbelieved.
• 10.70: (It is only) a provision in this world, then to Us shall be their return; then We shall make them taste severe punishment because they disbelieved.

• 13.5: And if you would wonder, then wondrous is their saying: What! when we are dust, shall we then certainly be in a new creation? These are they who disbelieve in their Lord, and these have chains on their necks, and they are the inmates of the fire; in it they shall abide.
• 13.32: And apostles before you were certainly mocked at, but I gave respite to those who disbelieved, then I destroyed them; how then was My requital (of evil)?
• 13.35: A likeness of the garden which the righteous are promised; there now beneath it rivers, its food and shades are perpetual; this is the requital of those who guarded (against evil), and the requital of the unbelievers is the fire.

• 14.2: (Of) Allah, Whose is whatever is in the heavens and whatever Is in the earth; and woe to the unbelievers on account of the severe chastisement
• 14.13: And those who disbelieved said to their apostles: We will most certainly drive you forth from our land, or else you shall come back into our religion. So their Lord revealed to them: Most certainly We will destroy the unjust.
• 14.22: And the Shaitan shall say after the affair is decided: Surely Allah promised you the promise of truth, and I gave you promises, then failed to keep them to you, and I had no authority over you, except that I called you and you obeyed me, therefore do not blame me but blame yourselves: I cannot be your aider (now) nor can you be my aiders; surely I disbelieved in your associating me with Allah before; surely it is the unjust that shall have the painful punishment.

• 16.27: Then on the resurrection day He will bring them to disgrace and say: Where are the associates you gave Me, for whose sake you became hostile? Those who are given the knowledge will say: Surely the disgrace and the evil are this day upon the unbelievers:
• 16.88: (As for) those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, We will add chastisement to their chastisement because they made mischief.
• 16.106: He who disbelieves in Allah after his having believed, not he who is compelled while his heart is at rest on account of faith, but he who opens (his) breast to disbelief on these is the wrath of Allah, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.
• 16.107: This is because they love this world's life more than the hereafter, and because Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.
• 16.116: And, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) This is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against Allah; surely those who forge the lie against Allah shall not prosper.
• 16.117: A little enjoyment and they shall have a painful punishment.
• 16.118: And for those who were Jews We prohibited what We have related to you already, and We did them no injustice, but they were unjust to themselves.

• 17.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you again return (to disobedience) We too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.
• 17.97: And whomsoever Allah guides, he is the follower of the right way, and whomsoever He causes to err, you shall not find for him guardians besides Him; and We will gather them together on the day of resurrection on their faces, blind and dumb and deaf; their abode is hell; whenever it becomes allayed We will add to their burning.
• 17.98: This is their retribution because they disbelieved in Our communications and said What! when we shall have become bones and decayed particles, shall we then indeed be raised up into a new creation?

• 18.29: And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place.
• 18.100: And We will bring forth hell, exposed to view, on that day before the unbelievers.
• 18.102: What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers.

• 21.39: Had those who disbelieve but known (of the time) when they shall not be able to ward off the fire from their faces nor from their backs, nor shall they be helped.

• 22.19: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.
• 22.20: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.
• 22.21: And for them are whips of iron.
• 22.22: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.
• 22.25: Surely (as for) those who disbelieve, and hinder (men) from Allah's way and from the Sacred Mosque which We have made equally for all men, (for) the dweller therein and (for) the visitor, and whoever shall incline therein to wrong unjustly, We will make him taste of a painful chastisement.
• 22.55: And those who disbelieve shall not cease to be in doubt concerning it until the hour overtakes them suddenly, or there comes on them the chastisement of a destructive day.
• 22.57: And (as for) those who disbelieve in and reject Our communications, these it is who shall have a disgraceful chastisement.
• 22.72: And when Our clear communications are recited to them you will find denial on the faces of those who disbelieve; they almost spring upon those who recite to them Our communications. Say: Shall I inform you of what is worse than this? The fire; Allah has promised it to those who disbelieve; and how evil the resort!

• 24.2: (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.
• 24.3: The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.
• 24.4: And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors,
• 24.5: Except those who repent after this and act aright, for surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
• 24.6: And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.
• 24.7: And the fifth (time) that the curse of Allah be on him if he is one of the liars.
• 24.8: And it shall avert the chastisement from her if she testify four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely one of the liars;
• 24.9: And the fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be on her if he is one of the truthful.
• 24.57: Think not that those who disbelieve shall escape in the earth, and their abode is the fire; and certainly evil is the resort!

• 25.52: So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it.
• 25.77: (Say to the kafirs: My Lord does not care for you or your prayers. You have rejected the truth, so sooner or later, a punishment will come.)

• 29.11: And most certainly Allah will know those who believe and most certainly He will know the hypocrites.
• 29.23: And (as to) those who disbelieve in the communications of Allah and His meeting, they have despaired of My mercy, and these it is that shall have a painful punishment.
• 29.52: Say: Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you; He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And (as for) those who believe in the falsehood and disbelieve in Allah, these it is that are the losers.
• 29.53: And they ask you to hasten on the chastisement; and had not a term been appointed, the chastisement would certainly have come to them; and most certainly it will come to them all of a sudden while they will not perceive.
• 29.54: They ask you to hasten on the chastisement, and most surely hell encompasses the unbelievers;
• 29.55: On the day when the chastisement shall cover them from above them, and from beneath their feet; and He shall say: Taste what you did.
• 29.68: And who is more unjust than one who forges a lie against Allah, or gives the lie to the truth when it has come to him? Will not in hell be the abode of the unbelievers?

• 30.16: And as to those who disbelieved and rejected Our communications and the meeting of the hereafter, these shall be brought over to the chastisement.

• 31.13: And when Luqman said to his son while he admonished him: O my son! do not associate aught with Allah; most surely polytheism is a grievous iniquity

• 33.1: O Prophet! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and do not comply with (the wishes of) the unbelievers and the hypocrites; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise;
• 33.12: And when the hypocrites and those in whose hearts was a disease began to say: Allah and His Apostle did not promise us (victory) but only to deceive.
• 33.8: That He may question the truthful of their truth, and He has prepared for the unbelievers a painful punishment.
• 33.24: That Allah may reward the truthful for their truth, and punish the hypocrites if He please or turn to them (mercifully); surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
• 33.25: And Allah turned back the unbelievers in their rage; they did not obtain any advantage, and Allah sufficed the believers in fighting; and Allah is Strong, Mighty.
• 33.26: And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.
• 33.27: And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
• 33.28: O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world's life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing
• 33.48: And be not compliant to the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and leave unregarded their annoying talk, and rely on Allah; and Allah is sufficient as a Protector.
• 33.50: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her -- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
• 33.51: You may put off whom you please of them, and you may take to you whom you please, and whom you desire of those whom you had separated provisionally; no blame attaches to you; this is most proper, so that their eyes may be cool and they may not grieve, and that they should be pleased, all of them with what you give them, and Allah knows what is in your hearts; and Allah is Knowing, Forbearing.
• 33.52: It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things.
• 33.60: If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;
• 33.61: Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.
• 33.64: Surely Allah has cursed the unbelievers and has prepared for them a burning fire,
• 33.65: To abide therein for a long time; they shall not find a protector or a helper.
• 33.73: So Allah will chastise the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the polytheistic men and the polytheistic women, and Allah will turn (mercifully) to the believing women, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

• 34.17: This We requited them with because they disbelieved; and We do not punish any but the ungrateful.
• 34.33: And those who were deemed weak shall say to those who were proud. Nay, (it was) planning by night and day when you told us to disbelieve in Allah and to set up likes with Him. And they shall conceal regret when they shall see the punishment; and We will put shackles on the necks of those who disbelieved; they shall not be requited but what they did.

• 35.7: (As for) those who disbelieve, they shall have a severe punishment, and (as for) those who believe and do good, they shall have forgiveness and a great reward.
• 35.26: Then did I punish those who disbelieved, so how was the manifestation of My disapproval?
• 35.36: And (as for) those who disbelieve, for them is the fire of hell; it shall not be finished with them entirely so that they should die, nor shall the chastisement thereof be lightened to them: even thus do We retribute every ungrateful one.

• 36.62: And certainly he led astray numerous people from among you. What! could you not then understand?
• 36.63: This is the hell with which you were threatened.
• 36.64: Enter into it this day because you disbelieved.

• 38.27: And We did not create the heaven and the earth and what is between them in vain; that is the opinion of those who disbelieve then woe to those who disbelieve on account of the fire.

• 39.32: Who is then more unjust than he who utters a lie against Allah and (he who) gives the lie to the truth when it comes to him; is there not in hell an abode for the unbelievers?
• 39.71: And those who disbelieve shall be driven to hell in companies; until, when they come to it, its doors shall be opened, and the keepers of it shall say to them: Did not there come to you apostles from among you reciting to you the communications of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say: Yea! But the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.

• 40.6: And thus did the word of your Lord prove true against those who disbelieved that they are the inmates of the fire.
• 40.35: (They who dispute the signs of Allah [kafirs] without authority having reached them are greatly hated by Allah and the believers. So Allah seal up every arrogant, disdainful heart.)

• 41.6: Say: I am only a mortal like you; it is revealed to me that your God is one God, therefore follow the right way to Him and ask His forgiveness; and woe to the polytheists;
• 41.7: (To) those who do not give poor-rate and they are unbelievers in the hereafter.
• 41.26: And those who disbelieve say: Do not listen to this Quran and make noise therein, perhaps you may overcome.
• 41.27: Therefore We will most certainly make those who disbelieve taste a severe punishment, and We will most certainly reward them for the evil deeds they used to do.
• 41.28: That is the reward of the enemies of Allah the fire; for them therein shall be the house of long abiding; a reward for their denying Our communications.
• 41.29: And those who disbelieve will say: Our Lord! show us those who led us astray from among the jinn and the men that we may trample them under our feet so that they may be of the lowest.
• 41.50: And if We make him taste mercy from Us after distress that has touched him, he would most certainly say: This is of me, and I do not think the hour will come to pass, and if I am sent back to my Lord, I shall have with Him sure good; but We will most certainly inform those who disbelieved of what they did, and We will most certainly make them taste of hard chastisement.

• 42.26: And He answers those who believe and do good deeds, and gives them more out of His grace; and (as for) the unbelievers, they shall have a severe punishment.

• 45.7: Woe to every sinful liar,
• 45.8: Who hears the communications of Allah recited to him, then persists proudly as though he had not heard them; so announce to him a painful punishment.
• 45.9: And when he comes to know of any of Our communications, he takes it for a jest; these it is that shall have abasing chastisement.
• 45.10: Before them is hell, and there shall not avail them aught of what they earned, nor those whom they took for guardians besides Allah, and they shall have a grievous punishment.
• 45.11: This is guidance; and (as for) those who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord, they shall have a painful punishment on account of uncleanness.

• 46.20: And on the day when those who disbelieve shall be brought before the fire: You did away with your good things in your life of the world and you enjoyed them for a while, so today you shall be rewarded with the punishment of abasement because you were unjustly proud in the land and because you transgressed.
• 46.21: And mention the brother of Ad; when he warned his people in the sandy plains, and indeed warners came before him and after him saying Serve none but Allah; surely I fear for you the punishment of a grievous day.
• 46.34: And on the day when those who disbelieve shall be brought before the fire: Is it not true? They shall say: Aye! by our Lord! He will say: Then taste the punishment, because you disbelieved.

• 47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
• 47.10: Have they not then journeyed in the land and seen how was the end of those before them: Allah brought down destruction upon them, and the unbelievers shall have the like of it.
• 47.11: That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, and because the unbelievers shall have no protector for them.
• 47.12: Surely Allah will make those who believe and do good enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; and those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode.
• 47.34: Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, then they die while they are unbelievers, Allah will by no means forgive them.

• 48.6: And (that) He may punish the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women, and the polytheistic men and the polytheistic women, the entertainers of evil thoughts about Allah. On them is the evil turn, and Allah is wroth with them and has cursed them and prepared hell for them, and evil is the resort.
• 48.13: And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.
• 48.25: It is they who disbelieved and turned you away from the Sacred Mosque and (turned off) the offering withheld from arriving at its destined place; and were it not for the believing men and the believing women, whom, not having known, you might have trodden down, and thus something hateful might have afflicted you on their account without knowledge so that Allah may cause to enter into His mercy whomsoever He pleases; had they been widely separated one from another, We would surely have punished those who disbelieved from among them with a painful punishment.

• 52.42: Or do they desire a war? But those who disbelieve shall be the vanquished ones in war.

• 57.13: On the day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say to those who believe: Wait for us, that we may have light from your light; it shall be said: Turn back and seek a light. Then separation would be brought about between them, with a wall having a door in it; (as for) the inside of it, there shall be mercy in it, and (as for) the outside of it, before it there shall be punishment.
• 57.15: So today ransom shall not be accepted from you nor from those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your friend and evil is the resort.
• 57.19: And (as for) those who believe in Allah and His apostles, these it is that are the truthful and the faithful ones in the sight of their Lord: they shall have their reward and their light, and (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the inmates of the hell.

• 58.4: But whoever has not the means, let him fast for two months successively before they touch each other; then as for him who is not able, let him feed sixty needy ones; that is in order that you may have faith in Allah and His Apostle, and these are Allah's limits, and the unbelievers shall have a painful punishment.
• 58.5: Surely those who act in opposition to Allah and His Apostle shall be laid down prostrate as those before them were laid down prostrate; and indeed We have revealed clear communications, and the unbelievers shall have an abasing chastisement.

• 59.2: He it is Who caused those who disbelieved of the followers of the Book to go forth from their homes at the first banishment you did not think that they would go forth, while they were certain that their fortresses would defend them against Allah; but Allah came to them whence they did not expect, and cast terror into their hearts; they demolished their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers; therefore take a lesson, O you who have eyes!
• 59.3: And had it not been that Allah had decreed for them the exile, He would certainly have punished them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have chastisement of the fire.
• 59.4: That is because they acted in opposition to Allah and His Apostle, and whoever acts in opposition to Allah, then surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil).
• 59.5: Whatever palm-tree you cut down or leave standing upon its roots, It is by Allah's command, and that He may abase the transgressors.
• 59.11: Have you not seen those who have become hypocrites? They say to those of their brethren who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book: If you are driven forth, we shall certainly go forth with you, and we will never obey any one concerning you, and if you are fought against, we will certainly help you, and Allah bears witness that they are most surely liars.

• 60.13: O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs.

• 61.9: He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion, that He may make it overcome the religions, all of them, though the polytheists may be averse.

• 62.5: The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
• 62.6: Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful.
• 62.7: And they will never invoke it because of what their hands have sent before; and Allah is Cognizant of the unjust.
• 62.8: Say: (As for) the death from which you flee, that will surely overtake you, then you shall be sent back to the Knower of the unseen and the seen, and He will inform you of that which you did.

• Sura 63: "The Hypocrites"

• 64.5: Has there not come to you the story of those who disbelieved before, then tasted the evil result of their conduct, and they had a painful punishment?
• 64.10: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, they are the inmates of the fire, to abide therein and evil is the resort.

• 65.4: And (as for) those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time shall be three months, and of those too who have not had their courses; and (as for) the pregnant women, their prescribed time is that they lay down their burden; and whoever is careful of (his duty to) Allah He will make easy for him his affair.

• 66.9: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.

• 67.5: And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with ( lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.
• 67.6: And for those who disbelieve in their Lord is the punishment of hell, and evil is the resort.
• 67.20: Or who is it that will be a host for you to assist you besides the Beneficent God? The unbelievers are only in deception.

• 76.4: Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.

• 78.40: Surely We have warned you of a chastisement near at hand: the day when man shall see what his two hands have sent before, and the unbeliever shall say: O! would that I were dust!

• 80.40: And (many) faces on that day, on them shall be dust,
• 80.41: Darkness shall cover them.
• 80.42: These are they who are unbelievers, the wicked.

• 85.10: Surely (as for) those who persecute the believing men and the believing women, then do not repent, they shall have the chastisement of hell, and they shall have the chastisement of burning.

• 86.15: (They plot and scheme against your [Mohammed], and I plot and scheme against the. Therefore, deal calmly with the kafirs and leave them alone for a while.)

• 88.23: But whoever turns back and disbelieves,
• 88.24: Allah will chastise him with the greatest chastisement.

• 98.6: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.
(mine in parentheses added to original, bold my favorites)


Now here is what the author of the 9/11 myth, that is was done by Israel, an anti-Semite and teacher of extreme Tanzeem-e-Islam, a Wahabis ideology, founded by Israr Ahmad believes:

45_large.jpg (interactive)
Israr Ahmad, founder of Tanzeem-e-Islam


quote:

While outreach to the Muslim community remains an important endeavor, officials at the FBI and other law enforcement agencies have become far less discerning in determining who the gatekeepers and spokesmen for the American Muslim community should be.

Take this recent meeting with Tanzeem-e-Islami, a group founded in Pakistan in 1975 and headed by a man named Dr. Israr Ahmad. The FBI might be unaware, but Ahmad is often credited with initiating the vicious rumor, spread throughout the Muslim world, that Israel was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. On the heels of the attacks, he sent faxes to various U.S. mosques and Islamic centers, stating:

The secret Israeli service Musad [sic] orchestrated these terrorist attacks ... [which] are a vital link in the chain of events that the Jews are undertaking to fulfill their dream of world domination.


Then look deeper into Israr's ideology:

quote:

According to the National Post, the Tanzeem-e-Islami's "goal is to establish the system of social justice of the Caliphate [Islamic state] firstly in Pakistan and then in the whole world," and that Ahmad's "ideal state" would include the following three principles:

"(1) Sovereignty belongs to Almighty Allah alone; (2) No legislation can be done at any level that is totally or partially repugnant to Koran and Sunnah, and; (3) Full citizenship of the state is for the Muslims only."

And Dr. Ahmad is not shy about his objective. An official bio states:
For the last forty years or so, Dr. Israr Ahmad has been actively engaged not only in reviving the Qur'an-centered Islamic perennial philosophy and world-view but also reforming the society in a practical way with the ultimate objective of establishing a true Islamic State, or the System of Khilafah.


Now, compare these two worlds of Islam, one above which says all these offensive and coercive passages of the Quran should either be removed or reinterpreted, so that they no longer offend us in modern times when humanity has evolved away from slavery and control, but embraced freedom and equal human rights for all. There is no Dar-al-Islam and Dar-al-Harb. We are all one Dar-al-Freedom world today, and there is no turning back from this. Freedom is the most precious gift humanity received, because only with the "extreme" demands of Freedom, with mutual respect and equality for all before the law, regardless of gender, and the responsibility this demands, and reciprocity, freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the freedom to form (legal) agreements; only then can humanity finally leave behind its slavery and ignorant superstitions. This we must do, and I support both Muslims and anyone of any faith to make this so.*

If you feel you want to take more of this Quiz, whether or not Muslim, go to: http://www.reformislam.org/polls/

How do you stack up? What do others think? Is there real hope for world peace with the Extremists of Islam? What do you think? How can it be achieved without resorting to war? These are most important questions for the next two or three generations of humankind. How they will be answered, not in words but in deeds, will determine what is it we truly believe. Is it Peace? Not by surrendering to the Extremists, but through a very determined and strong resistance to all their coercions. Or is Islam a 'death cult' dividing the world into 'believers' and 'non-believers'? You cannot unify by dividing the world in two. If there is reform for Islam, it must be away from violence and towards Freedom.

We must be free to be the humanity of the future, or else we fall back into the slavery of the past. We must be the Free. Sharia has absolutely no place in the modern world.


Ivan

*(This above is in spirit the same as something I wrote two years ago, "What if Islam Reformed?", which can be seen here: http://www.humancafe.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=88&post=2126#POST2126 , where the idea was to remove from the sacred texts all references to violence and coercion, and choose peace.)

Also see: Liberty vs. Sharia
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ananimas
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 01:10 pm:   

Killing the Apostate, is it per Islamic law?

The 'apostate' is one who is born into Islam and later rejects it, or converts and later changes his mind.

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_251_300/is_killing_an_apostate_in_the_is.h tm

"The Qur’an is completely silent on any worldly punishment for apostasy and the sole Tradition that forms the basis of rulings is open to many interpretations.

Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said: ‘Whosoever changes his religion, Kill Him (man baddala Dinahu faqtuluhu)’”. It is this last quote from the Prophet that forms the basis of the said ruling."

There is a difference of opinion in Muslim jurisdiction over this, some think yes, others no. What does the Apostate think of this?

"If repentance is accepted, then apostasy is not a hadd offence with a fixed punishment. Secondly, once scholars accept that a Muslim apostate has the right to be given the opportunity to repent, they lose the right to set a time limit for his repentance."

If not repentant, then kill him? But then this:

"The Glorious Qur'an says, "Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly distinct from the crooked path." Al Baqarah, 2:256." But then there is this:

"One must conclude that the death sentence is not for “simple apostasy” (mujarrad al-ridda), but for apostasy accompanied by treason and sedition, or by the abuse and slander (sabb) of the Noble Prophet."

Death walks like a shadow in Islam.

"The Qur’an has referred to the issue of apostasy at more than one place (for example see Al-Baqarah 2: 217, Al-Baqarah 2: 108, A’l Imra’n 3: 90, Al-Nisa’ 4: 137 and Al-Nahl 16: 106). But at none of these places does the Qur’an mention the punishment of death for such people who change their religion. The Qur’an does mention that such people shall face a terrible punishment in the hereafter but no worldly punishment is mentioned at any of these instances in the Qur’an." But later it says:

"Shaykh Subhani says lack of clear grasp of Qur'an misguided even leading Ulama. Otherwise it was not difficult to understand the hadith. Qur'anic teachings on the issue were not kept in mind.
He emphasizes that people who were awarded death penalty for reverting to other religions from Islam during the time of the Prophet (SAW) or during the reign of his caliphs were not given the punishment for the crime of apostasy but for the fact that they were at war with Muslims and Islamic government."

Islam is not a Cult if "death for apostasy" is wrong, but if it is right, then it is a "death cult" and no reforms can save it. Killing of apostates is a violation of universal human rights.
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Le Chef/ Tours
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 04:23 pm:   

Don't forget your history, or you will repeat it.

300px-Steuben_-_Bataille_de_Poitiers.png -linked image-
October 10, 732 at Poitiers, France

"While modern historians are divided as to whether or not the victory was responsible — as Gibbon and his generation of historians claimed — for saving Christianity and halting the conquest of Europe by Islam, the battle helped lay the foundations for the Carolingian Empire, and Frankish domination of Europe for the next century. "The establishment of Frankish power in western Europe shaped that continent's destiny and the Battle of Tours confirmed that power." [14]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours

"As later chroniclers praised Charles Martel as the champion of Christianity, pre-20th century historians began to characterize this battle as being the decisive turning point in the struggle against Islam, a struggle which preserved Christianity as the religion of Europe. "Most of the 18th and 19th century historians, like Gibbon, saw Poitiers (Tours), as a landmark battle that marked the high tide of the Muslim advance into Europe."[10] Leopold von Ranke felt that "Poitiers was the turning point of one of the most important epochs in the history of the world." [11]"


Le Chef antiquario
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Ivan/life&death
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 06:59 pm:   

We love life, they love death?

Thanks animas and le Chef, for this is a crucial point in Islamic 'extremism', that they love death while we love life. Especially, from my above, this one:

"• 16.107: This is because they love this world's life more than the hereafter, and because Allah does not guide the unbelieving people."

So you see, death is what they worship, which makes them a cult of death, as they themselves, the jihadis, have told us:

"You love Coca-Cola, we love Death!" (as in the old Coke ad, "Coke adds life!")

Please help them achieve their goals... :-) But most Muslims don't believe this at all, thank God.
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Ivan/mysticism
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 11:24 am:   

Mystical writing, when it is unbelievably bad, or just unfinished...


Chakras3.gif (interactive)
Seven Chakras in the 'mystical' human body

If anyone ever tried stream of consciousness writing, what I call 'mystical' writing, they probably had the same experience I had, that it comes out mostly gibberish. When I was a young man of 20, I sat down at an ancient typewriter and started pounding off a stream of consciousness for what I felt inside my feverish brain, and needless to say while tapping away in my tiny garret room (81 Marlborough St., Boston, summer 1968), the product was no James Joyce. Matter of fact, I still have a copy somewhere in storage, and I should take another look at it. But anyone at the time who saw it said it was awful, which it was, as if my sense of reason was suspended temporarily to write down what I felt. However, there was a kernel of something worthwhile in those mad ramblings, which years later was polished into what is now Habeas Mentem (original title "Man in All that Is", pub. 1986 by PE Randall, NH), which itself was still unpolished. It takes years of hard work, and much thought, to make a seminal idea into some semblance of reason that is understandable to others. Mystical writing is like that, mostly bad, which makes it hard to read, voluminous without saying much, but not all of it is so bad that it cannot be salvaged at a later date, which inherently means mystical writing is unfinished. When I went back to my first manuscript, which I think was called "On the Sacred Law of Liberty" or some such thing, its ramblings actually had some good ideas, but you had to sift through a lot of garbage to see it. And to prove the point, I'm still working on it today, which is what in part is what this Humancafe forum is about. Is Liberty a mystical concept, or concepts like interrelationship and infinity, or universal Mind, to be polished further until they become understandable for all? There are kernels of truth in our mad ramblings, pearls that must be separated out from all the verbiage grist the mind can spew.

This is how I read and understand Genesis of the Bible, or Revelations, as something mystical written as a stream of consciousness, which is why different readers will find different pearls within the ramblings. There is something of value there, but you have to keep digging to find the mind of the writer, because it was never polished up to be a final work. It reminds a little like sacred chantings, or Indian drumming, or even Ohmm, that within the sounds are hidden truths, but they make no sense on the rational level. So when I read parts of other sacred texts, I keep that in mind, that these are more like unpolished mystical writings, not necessarily a reasoned text, but to communicate to some other level of our consciousness, perhaps sub-consciousness, trying to explain the unexplainable. Likewise, the above listed sayings of Mohammed in what later became compiled as the Koran (Mohammed did not write himself because he was illiterate) as a stream of consciousness, was from that mystical realm that is not rational. If Mohammed had tried to explain what he felt inside (his feverish brain) and was seeking God, then it might have been different. The context of his writings were focussed on warfare and survival, thus much of what came out negative (see long list above) was as often disturbing as it was wise. There may be kernels of truth in it, but the obvious violence and coerciveness of the text tells me this is not the end product, not something which if Mohammed was able to revisit at a much later date he would have been proud of. In fact, a lot of it is particularly awful. But those were the times he lived in, that violence and slavery were a fact of life, and he simply spoke within the context of that reality. We today no longer accept these ideas and have matured into a world that is more oriented towards giving people equal rights and freedom than conscription to a violent ideology. We now see the benefits of human freedoms in ways those early biblical and koranic writers could not know. Times changed, and with it so has human civilization. But this is still unfinished work, and much more polish is needed to cement it into place for all time. There is no 'seal of the prophets' if our work continues. (Note how much Islam wants to be a 'religion of peace' and yet in real life how badly if fails at that, as all the jihad violence proves.) We are still evolving as a human species, away from violence and slavery, so the work is very far from done.

The power of mystical writings is that it is supra-rational, outside the reasonable mind, and talks directly into some sub-conscious part of our being. Hence, it still communicates in some ways even thousands of years later. This is talk into our angst about life, and especially about death, that we must try to understand something beyond understanding. But to say that what we earlier understood must now be fixed forever in time, as the final 'seal', is a grand injustice to humanity, because we are always understanding more and thus evolving. The human condition cannot be fixed forever at some point in time as if human reason was devoid of ability in unlocking the universal secrets. We know this today, because we have uncovered such secrets, maybe but only the first angstrom layer of what our existence is all about, but we have made progress. Our modern world is testimony to the fact that though grudgingly the universe will open its secrets to us, on its own terms if we 'submit' to its truths. We must remain always open to the possibilities it will allow, become cognizant of when such opportunities arise, and seize the moment with our minds to understand it. It is not mere technology that the modern mind discovered, but also the very powerful force of freedom, that human beings can be unbelievably creative and productive when allowed to be Who they are. Of course, this can only work within the realm of responsibility and reciprocity of respect for the other, an awareness that they too are free to be Who they are. To us, even at this modern stage, this is still a mystical idea, that Freedom is actually a universal force into which we can tap our experiences and abilities, to make a better world. This is almost magical, but it works. We know it works because of our history. And it does not work in a vacuum, one lone individual dreaming the universe with mystical ideas, but in community with other human beings, all of whom are searching. No matter how small the group, or how uneducated, we communicate with our minds in ways we still cannot understand, but there is a power to freedom never known before. That is where this mysticism has taken us today, way back from our distant ancestors, to understand that there is a better way to life, and that we can be empowered by it to become more conscious and successful human beings. To become aware of each other, and of our own interconnectedness in both life and all existence, is the next step of our consciousness (what I tried to write down all those long years ago so unsuccessfully), that with each thought we progress however infinitesimally towards that final goal, that we become aware human beings. And that is infinitely mystical, and powerful.

So do not become discouraged when reading those above listed sayings of Mohammed, or other (on the surface) nonsensical ancient sacred writings, some obviously brutal and violent, because they are not the end product. This is seminal work that in retrospect often proved itself unwieldy, even damaging, but it can be salvaged, because it comes from some deeper inner angst of our existence. They should all be cherished for what they represent, that we wanted to understand through mystical reason something still beyond our understanding. (They were trying to understand God! big job.) They are part of our history, of where we came from to become Who we are today, so there was something good. With each new thought, each new feeling, and each new 'mystical' connection we have with each other and all existence, we crystalize something of value to ourselves, and for each other. We can do this. This is an evolving process, and though at times we may ramble on incoherently, there are little pearls of truth hidden there. Pay attention. We will be better, less violent, more free, and indeed find Peace. And if you feel that Love inside, pay attention, because that has the greatest potential for our existence that we can ever be empowered with in this reality. That was what Christ tried to teach us. We are that. Be aware, pay attention, and do not be afraid of Who you are. You are much more than you can imagine.

150px-Star_figure_9-3.png (interactive)
Sufi enneagram


Ivan


[BTW, an example of spontaneous writing (though not exactly mystical) was this short story which I wrote in a 24 hour period: Ipi of the Desert - a Kumayaay's boy journey into manhood. That 'mystical' rock art I found in the desert left behind by the Indians 'spoke' to me, at some mystical level, so I felt compelled to write it down. What it reads is pretty much what came out unedited, except that I am now a mature man who has had much experience with life and writing. Had I written this 40 years ago, it would have been very different. But when it's in your head, write it down, there may be something of value hidden there.] :-) Be extreme, reach for that love!
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ananimas
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 05:28 pm:   

Islam as a 'religion of peace'? NOT.

"According to someone who has actually categorized and quantified an arbitrary sample of 201 verses from the Quran, the so-called good or peaceful verses constitute less than 4%, whereas verses promoting hatred, violence, insult, etc. against non-Muslims constitutes a much higher percentage. Here is what she found:

52.7% Hatred against Infidels.
24.9% About Believers.
11.4% About Allah
5% About the Day of Doom
2% Anti-Woman.
4% (other categories)" (i.e., Do not steal from the poor/Give to the poor, Muslim etiquette, etc.)

Source, Islam Watch: http://www.islam-watch.org/Amber/Islam-Trial-Prosecution-Case.htm

Forum source, Khaybar Oasis, November 11, 2007 12:07 PM: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018752.php

This shows the Qu'ran will need much rewriting, if not outright ban half the book, to make Islam a 'religion of peace.'
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Ivan/life&death2
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 09:45 pm:   

We value life, they value death...

593.jpg

From the Daily Mail, UK: On 'Rage Boy', not what he seems, or not what it appears to be from this journalist's perspective.

Can it be more barbaric than this?

quote:

In Pakistan, former prime minister Benazir Bhutto said the bomb that blew up her homecoming convoy, killing 140 people, may have been strapped to a child dressed in her party colours who was handed up to her vehicle moments before the blast.



Is it any wonder the world is slowly turning more and more against the 'religion of peace?' What mother or father would want to do this to their child? In a civilized country the answer is easy, but in the Islamic extremist world...?

"You love life, we love death" rings true, if this is true. We value the life of every human being, while they value death. To value death over life is to turn everything beautiful, joyful, congenial, intelligent, spiritual, loving, all of it brutally upside down. What an incredible evil has been unleashed upon the world. It is grossly monstrous.

Ivan
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Ivan/our Earth
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 09:42 pm:   

We are so filled with self importance!

Look at this image of the Earth, trace its continental edges, forests and savannas, mountains and lakes, seas and oceans, and vast deserts, like the great Australian desert at bottom right, or Sahara on left. Or what about Israel, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, prominent under cloudless skies. How important are they? From space, they're just another blotch of landscape. And yet to the people there, ahh... that is so important... that they will kill each other over a hard scrabble piece of desert. Human egos, to the max, absurd. Why would anyone think they have a right to be anywhere on the planet, and conquer that piece of a heavenly globe as their exclusive possession, because some maddened prophet told them "Allah said so"? It all makes no sense, alas, except it is so cruel and violent. Women do not have equal rights to men? Who said?

I believe it is all nonsense. Read all the posts listed above, especially the "Muslims against Sharia" list, and tell me it is not all nonsense. How much ego can any one man have to generate so much hatred, especially against 'infidels'? It's a dead end, there is no future in this. When you stop and consider where we of the West had been over the past five centuries, and look where the Arab world had ended up, there is no contest. Liberty is so powerful, our scientific knowledge is so superb (from whence comes this image of Earth), and our technological advancements in medicine, communications, computing, travel, equality of human rights, has so far outdistanced the old world (including Allah), that any comparison becomes laughable, if not odious. There is no comparison! For a people to glorify blowing yourself up to kill for your god is grotesque, not even ancient savages would do that. To train children to blow up is criminal. We have laws. These things are criminal activities, suitable for a war or death cult, but not for civilization. It is those laws, our enshrined constitutional freedoms and human rights, that will undo this cult. It's over. There is no contest anymore. Bury the past of superstitions and slavery. It's over.

Imagine a faith based belief system centered on the ego, whereby what you believe is what everyone must believe universally, or more, what the whole universe must be. That's Ego. It is not the Supreme being that rules such a universe, but the Supreme ego of one man. This is what the Extremists believe, based on what Mohammed's had become, a totally coercive faith based system which if you fail to believe you will be punished, or killed. This is primitive nonsense, a false ideology, and totally wrong.

Look again at your world, your planet, that small blue orb circling our great star, on the edge of our galaxy. What do you see? Is this what you want, to kill? Why not love instead? It's so easy. Try it. You may be surprised how incredibly beautiful it is. What do you think God is? Answer that, and you have Peace for a thousand years. Go on, give it a try.


globe_west_540.jpg
Stop it, you fools. Life is the future, not death. Embrace life. Love life.


Ivan


[Ps: I think this thread has run its course, we have examined the Extremists, and they had been found seriously wanting. We will close this thread shortly, and move on. Life is too beautiful to be wasted here. They lost, it's over.]

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